SweetSue Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 (edited) .............................................. Edited April 2, 2010 by SweetSue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallstar Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Sue, this is so hard. I am so sorry you are going through this. Social services can be so unfair, hurting families rather than helping. It shows what a good mother you are, that you chose to temporarily hand them over to social services, so unselfishly, so that you could get better and get them back and be the mother they need. What you did was out of pure love for your babies. I think you should continue to fight for them. Noone can love them and care for them like you do. I think when all is said and done and you have them back in your loving arms like you and they deserve that any kind of emotional pain that they may experience during the process will be healed through your love for them. They will know how you never stopped fighting for them, you never stopped loving them. You are a good person and a great mother. You deserve your children and they deserve you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetSue Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 (edited) .............................. Edited April 2, 2010 by SweetSue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Jj I think it is very unfair and dangerous to ask you to make a decision on this at the moment.Do not be bullied into making decisions, take your time, plenty of time.Ask about your rights as a parent, research it yourself (if you can), try and be informed and then you will be ready to make a decision.Take careGoose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danni Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 I agree with Goose. This is not a time to make a decision like this. You already have very overwhelming feelings throughout the journey to court. You have so many other things going on right now that you really need to think this through AFTER getting all the information you can to make an informed decision. Can you get an advocate or a lawyer to help you research and sort through your options????? I know the bottom line for you is that you love your children with all your heart and want the very best for them. Whatever you ultimatelydecide is best, take the time and do the work necessary to make the best decision for them. After all, again, it's about what's best for them. Right??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscat Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Sue, Do you have a Lawyer? I agree that now is not the time to be making these decisions . Not until you are strong enough . And well enough. Here in the United States family reuionifcation is the primary goal. Once you are well , and you can demostrate to the judge this, and you are reciveing follow up outpatient care, perhaps their is a possibility that you will have your children back. With a good Lawyer , and the ability to show evidence of stability in your health , their will be be no way the court can say that you are unable to take care of your children. I am so sorry I was taken away from my parents and siblings at the age of 3, however that was due to extreme abuse and neglect... their were 5 of us and we were all under the age of 5. I was the only girl. My parents never gave up, and they ran off with the infant, than eventully got 2of the oldest boys back . my younger brother and I , they never got us . Nor was anyone ever allowed to adopt us. Unfortunately my foster mother was a bitch and was further abusive. Do not give up fighting for your children . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GingerSnap Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 We have a child that is adopted and had hoped to adopt other children but we just got old really fast and it is so complicated because in the US, you know all those children they feature on television, newspapers, etc., even with a letter perfect home study, references and supreme physical/mental health, they still hold them in foster care here. One thing I did learn and I don't know if it is available outside the US is that some foster parents "permanently foster" a child/children which keeps them in one home and there is also open adoption where the birth parents continue to have visitation and it can be as sharing as the adoptive and birth parents can agree on. I don't give you this information because I think you should not fight to keep your family but as maybe something you can look at if you need to. If you end up without a choice at some point, maybe something could be worked out where you will always play a part in the lives of your kids. I know this has to be hard for you as I could never imagine how my son's birth mother could surrender him but I do understand that she did it with his best interest in mind, our son has Down syndrome and she was very young and had mental health issues and did not feel she could adequately care for him. If you could just get assistance in looking at all your options and that should be available if you do some digging around, I'm not sure where York is or I would do some research for you also on the computer. If I can do some research online, let me know - you deserve choices! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetSue Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 (edited) ................................................. Edited April 2, 2010 by SweetSue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GingerSnap Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 I did want to mention that in the US if a relative takes the children in as foster children, they do receive the pay that foster parents normally get. I don't know about where you are. In the US they have such a hard time finding foster parents I know and if you call about adoption, they only want to talk about you fostering a child or possibly fost/adopt where you take a foster child that most likely, but not definitely, will be eventually free for adoption. I have a copy of the termination papers signed by my son's birthmother and I cried when I read them - something so final and I could not imagine the pain the birth mother had went through in signing these after having my son with her for 10 days. She had a child 10 months later and kept her, perhaps to fill the void she felt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetSue Posted October 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) ....................................... Edited April 2, 2010 by SweetSue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David O Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Good morning Sue,Of all things painful, I know that this would be the worst for me (with the exception of the death of one of my children or my beautiful wife). As I'm writing I can feel the deep sadness at the thoughts of my children not seeing me or me them... the lump in my throat forms and my eyes begin to water. My son has now been gone for a year (post-college) and I've only seen him once-- I often cry alone in the car while I drive, a silent weep that deeply cuts inside as I mourn the loss of our time together. My daughter leaves in <1 year and soon the loneliness will consume me. Certainly my situation pales in comparison to yours, but you see, I have no biological family-- I was an abandoned child, left to strangers in a tiny village in old Mexico. My kids thus have a unique significance. My heart goes out to you Sue, for while you give all of us hope, reassurance, affection, support, pieces of your soul as you can, we all know you also suffer in ways none of us can imagine. On another note, in the late 1990s, the federal Adoption and Safe Families Act established “safety, permanency and well-being” as the goals of child welfare agencies. This was taken from the British model of: "safety, social connectedness and emotional well-being (in that order)" as hallmarks for decisions about removing children from a parent. Over the years I've been in court as an "expert witness" on placement decisions. While this may all look legal, the realities are that >50% is political and games. A parent who knows how to play nice, works with everyone involved, and looks like she/he's pulling it together (even if it's a lie) can snow the court. I see it frequently. Sue, while I know this is the most painful of situations, you may need a basic lifesaving plan to get you out of there. It is this plan that will empower you and convince the courts and hospital of your healthiness. Right now you may not feel clearheaded enough, but when you do, we can start this process, keeping in mind that time is critical.With great compassion and affection,David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) Sue, look for a barrister or an advocate if you cant afford a barrister (you can get some advocates on legal aid) who happily work AGAINST socal services and has a good history of winning those cases..i lost my children to their dad because i wasnt aware until it was too late that judges and outside agencies who deal with 'family law' always always side with social services, they dare not do despite their claims.And if you're not aware of it already all the so called patient confidentialiy? well that can be broken without your knowledge or consent if social services request it in ''the interest of childrens well being'' so be prepared for any surprises in that area.I knew none of this until after my court cases and i can assure you despite how good you think your solicitor is or how helpful , when you speak to the minority (and it is a minority) who do work against them you will be surprised at the power in courts that social services hold,the tricks they can get away with and that most solicitors will go very carefully and even give poor advice and support because they know they will not win 9/10...so as a respected advocate asked me..why would they waste they're time? they'll still get paid the same if you're on legal aid.if you're not sure how much power social services have my ex-husband beat the sh!t out of my oldest son (13 at the time) black eyes bust ribs etc my daughter was found to be possibly sexually abused..i had already warned s/s that one of the reasons i did not want my childrens father (absent for 2 yrs) to have them before any of that came out was because i had caught him d/loading pre-teen porn and he was violent amongst other things however socal services still convinced the judges (who weirdly never questioned or commented on any of that) that he was a wonderful father he'd just gotten a ''bit angry'' because my sons behaviour was poor and other than implying that if my daughter was abused then it must have been during the 2 yrs her father wasnt present it wasnt reffered to or looked into and when i questioned my solicitors about this i was advised ''it's pointless bringing it up,thats not what the judge is interested in..huh? i thought the whole point of the court case was to show that I their client was the one who my children would be safer with??) ,but i however according to s/services was an abusive neglectful mother because i was ''a bit low'' ''needed to pull my socks up'' and had been diagnosed with BPD...and thats how i lost my children.i'll admit i am biased against them but that's because of the yrs of experience i had with them,the reports, the courts, speaking with many others in exactly the same situation and worst of all the way they dealt with my children throughout it all, please search for a legal representative who is happy and has good credentials for fighting against social services.One more word of advice, insist that if/whenever they speak with your children that you have somebody represent you present at all times and you have a right to do that, i wasnt aware of that nobody including my own solicitors told me that until i later spoke to a barrister who has worked against s/s in fact i was told i wasnt allowed to have anyone present only their father was allowed.s/services have a bad habit of putting words in childrens mouths,ignoring what doesnt suit them,calling them liars when the children say something they dont want to hear and manipulating simple innocent comments.you deserve your children and most important of all they deserve you, you are a great mum and they are lucky to have you and as you said you know and understand them better than anyone..fight for them! Edited October 23, 2009 by Donna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David O Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Hi Donna,Since Sue is "locked away" in the hospital and thus can't take care of her children, what can she do? The laws are different here. What is she fighting for given her situation? This may be very good info to have right now.Thanks,David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetSue Posted October 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) ................................................... Edited April 2, 2010 by SweetSue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) There are longer term foster carers out there, and if you can find a good representative who can show the courts that your children will be better served in a long term settled environment/placement which is semi-permenant until you are out of hospital and able to care for them your self.But again i cant stress enough it really is better to find legal representation that fights against social services somebody who can prove they do not just somebody who says they do. It is also worth requesting all your records of social services, including written,electronic,memos, notes of phone calls etc i think it costs around £15.00 now, they will and are allowed by law to refuse access to certain information usually 3rd party (ie drs letters,psych reports,crt etc) BUT if you are clever enough and also request permission from any agencies who you think may have had any form of contact with them providing they agree (and most will for a small fee) then s/services cannot refuse and it doesnt matter anyway if you have the copies from the relevant sources .s/services often try to palm you off by offering to let you have a 'read' of those reports however they are not supposed to do that legally although they often do lol but it's unlikely because you are in the hospital,it's quite a relevation reading those reports :eek: you will generally find many things missing there that you find appearing in the court reports!i just wish id known then what i do now..my life and my childrens would be very different.i really wish you all the best Sue.whatever you do it will be a long hard fight but it's worth it,im sorry if i sound pushy or anything but id hate to see it happen to you simply because you wernt informed.Look up as much info as you can, i had a lot of good informative and legal links until i reformatted my pc and forgot to save them if i can find them again i will give you them if they're of any help. Edited October 23, 2009 by Donna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) Sue, i didnt mean to make it sound bad, i just want to stress how important it is to get the right help..im really sorry if ive made you feel bad or more worried i dont want to do that! you're not screwed if you get the best help you can, i just didnt know that and went along with the system.btw i went to my dr and s/services and asked for help because i was ill thats how i got in that boat too you can do it, just hang in there do as much research as you can look for the best help you can and fight for what you believe in i was naive and didnt know better until it was too late..you've got more sense than me. Edited October 23, 2009 by Donna bad typos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David O Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Donna,Thanks so much for your reply-- that was very helpful. Sometimes we don't know or understand the process in other countries--- so this was just solid advice.David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetSue Posted October 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) ............................................. Edited April 2, 2010 by SweetSue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetSue Posted October 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) ....................................... Edited April 2, 2010 by SweetSue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 Jj, you sound very focused and determined tonight. You go, girl! I don't blame you for being upset and grouchy. You want your kids back where they belong. Wow. I don't even know what to say except it sound like there are laws that need to be changed.Good luck, Sue.Beth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetSue Posted October 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 (edited) .................................. Edited April 2, 2010 by SweetSue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetSue Posted October 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 (edited) ................................. Edited April 2, 2010 by SweetSue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetSue Posted October 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 (edited) ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Edited April 2, 2010 by SweetSue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 Sue, you do have the right to have somebody present or at least in my locality you do, but as i said before it is important that you find legal representation that will stand out from the crowd,i was also told by my own legal team and not just s/services that i couldnt it wasnt until after the case was totally finished when speaking with the advocate and barrister that i was told that was bs and that most solicitors and barristers just go along with all authorities as they know it's a hard battle and most of them dont have the experience or know how to really fight.you personally cant be present because they will argue that this can put pressure on your chldren and make it difficult for them to speak openly (which unfortunately is true in some cases) DONT let them talk you into a compromise such as having a teacher, health visitor there because again they as a rule stick with the authorities.as you've unfortunately discovered social services have a habit of lying,missing out relevant info and twisting the facts so be aware you also have the right to request that any meetings YOU have with them can be tape- recorded by yourself, they will argue and say you dont but you DO, when they refuse and they generally will you have to remind s/services that if they're not happy to do so then they need to check with their legal team. It's not garaunteed the legal team will agree to it but try pushing it.if at any time you see them outside the hospital if you were to go home etc take digital photos which are dated of your house because they have standard reports ..ie i was having a new carpet fitted in my bedroom and had taken my old one up in the meantime..in the report that translated into ''donnas home had no carpets or flooring fitted'' i dont like clutter and have a fairly large lounge and like furniture pushed back so the middle has space for the children to play, in there i had a large tv cabinet, a corner unit a 3 door sideboard, a 3 seater and 2 seater settees in the report that translated into ''donnas home is sparsley furnished''i had stopped doing my own washing and each w/end would pay for a washing/ironing service to collect and return my laundry..as a result it was all prepared in bags ready to be taken..that translated in the reports to ''donna does not do laundry and has it piled in bags in the wash basket'' i could go on and on, i know you're not at home but they pull all kind of crafty tricks and after speaking with other people their reports were practically worded the same even though everyones circumstances vary..they also in some areas get a payment for each adoption they succeed with :mad: there's been a few s/workers (the good ones) who have actually left because of the system and spoken out against them because of the unjustness.BUT i dont want to frighten you Sue and it isnt always doom and gloom! there are some good ones out there and it can depend on which local authority you are under so you could be under a good one you have actually been lucky to a degree so far (even if it doesnt seem that way) so keep your hopes alive,when i first asked for help i was refused and told the only help they could offer was to take my children for respite on occasion but ''unfortunately there's no places available and my children would most likely have to sleep in cells with drug addicts and criminals!'' like a fool i believed them at the time and was didnt fight them when they insisted on contacting their father until i found out differently when i questioned them they denied ever saying it even though i had my family present at the time!in the current climate s/services and judges are coming down heavily on fathers rights and visitations despite the fathers historys so thats one battle won Another thing that i know has helped some people is if things seem to be getting difficult try to get your local MP onside..they will make hospital visits.just push push push everything and get as much ammunition as you can and research as much as possible, if you want to keep your solicitor but would like to look for another barrister or advocate that specialises in s/services cases you have the right to insist to your solicitor the one you want ..again something i didnt know i just believed i had to use the one my solicitor provided.if i can find the links i had i will pass them on to you,they have been invaluable to some people,there is an organisation out there which is fighting for laws and procedures to be changed whch includes ex social workers, barristers advocates as well as people who have suffered and human rights people. im not up to date with what the situation is currently in that area but it is worth looking into.like a lot of things in this bloody country of ours there is help out there that nobody ever tells you about you have to search for it.obviously i cant gaurentee any outcome and say that any of this will ensure you winning, but hopefully the more you know the higher your chances and perhaps more confident you will feel.sorry for rambling..and i really really hope you can do this...people can beat the system and you can too.take care sue and try to think positively, concentrate on your children and try not to let yourself get lost in it all..that will be half the battle won. finding my way 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 ive found one link, which gives info and details of where you can get free advice from legal reps experienced and well versed in these kind of cases.you need to scroll quite far down for various numbers and helplines but it might be worth bookmarking.http://www.forced-adoption.com/introduction.asp SweetSue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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