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nearlydead
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This is how I got here....

http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=24026

My penis is 4"X4". It is not small in my imagination, but is a small reality.

For all of us, whether size is an issue "only in the mind" or an actual physical reality, the only cure lies in changing how we feel about our size. We all have the same basic symptoms, anger/shame/fear (Tourette's:D) etc. We mostly have had very similiar expeirences as each other.

I've never had therapy, but I have read David Burns "Feeling good handbook" which give the basics of CBT. It didn't work for me, as I thought it too good to be true. However, amongst the posts, including mine I have noticed the same traits in thinking that Dr A Schwartz notes in his articule about us SPS types.

So My question is, I'm aware of my "Rigid thinking, and thoughts" but how do I go about breaking them, and more importantly BELIEVEING in what I will be telling myself in the future:confused: when those rigid thoughts are backed up by various written surveys, articules, forums, and my own sometimes conflicting expeierences.

Hopefully Irma will be along shortly to translate what I have just wrote, into a sensible question:rolleyes:

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"hose rigid thought patterns are tough to break."

They are, but it must be done some how.

"I couldn't function because I was fearful of my small size. There was no way I was going to let her see me limp so I made some excuse not to have sex with her. That is the only date I have ever been on and I have not been on a date since."

This ED, is it performance anxiety, can you get it up in the morning/duuring the night? (edit: Just re-read your post, it is only in the brain) So you made the decission not to go through with it. Did she see your size? Sounds like you let fear get the better of you, and then have beat yourself up about it eversince, without getting a womans opinion on YOUR size as against just heraing the usaul teen womans randon, inexpierenced chatter. 6yrs later, maybe it is time to draw a line and conciestly force yourself to forget about it, kinda push it from your mind.

"a hooker just wants my money and is not looking to enjoy herself so she has no expectations of me."

Why not transfer this thinking to ordinary women? As we have said before, and the whole gist of that article is to stop focussing on their pleasure and focus on your own. I printed off that article and read it a couple of times a day, I'm going to learn it of by heart.

You are right, the only way is to get back out there and keep trying. But before you go, you can get yourself fully prepared. Get the idea of "your pleasure" firmly implanted in your mind, get the pills and try them first, buy some condoms made for your size and practice putting them on and wearing them until they no longer feel strange.

Edited by nearlydead
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So My question is, I'm aware of my "Rigid thinking, and thoughts" but how do I go about breaking them, and more importantly BELIEVEING in what I will be telling myself in the future when those rigid thoughts are backed up by various written surveys, articules, forums, and my own sometimes conflicting expeierences.

Maybe try letting go a little and allowing more positive thoughts as at least a possibility. This is easier said than done, I know. Try living in the moment and allowing joy in the moment. I think sometimes we get into a pattern of protecting ourselves so much from any potential pain that we forget to just live. Try realizing that any person you might be with is also a flawed human being likely with her own insecurities. I think maybe you put a lot of pressure on yourself to be someone other than who you are. How about just appreciating the person you are and just being? What positive traits do you have to offer? Think about those.

I also think that life is what we make of it. If you want something you have to go after it... or valuable time will always be slipping away. It's about being proactive instead of reactive.

Nearlydead, what is exactly that you think has kept you from trying with women? Fear of the pain of rejection? Fear of loss?

Recluse, I don't know if pills and prostitutes are the real answers in this. The key is believing in and accepting yourself, I think. Perfomance anxiety is likely just a symptom in this.

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Can we look at it this way? There's no statistical evidence that proves that I'm a worthwhile human being, either. I've had my share of difficulties believing it, at times, though you may not feel my "reasons" are valid.

I'm stuck having to believe it, or not believe it, for myself, just like everyone else. Now granted, you guys have received some pretty negative input about yourselves, but in the end, you have that same question to answer.

Personally, I don't believe the answer comes from outside of me, whether that's statistics or how I look or what my IQ or skin color or whatever says to other people about me. It has had to come from inside of me, in the face of an abusive spouse as well as all the bullshit I already believed about myself in order to marry her. So personally, without discounting your reasons at all, I do believe that we all are worthwhile human beings. Even if the statistical odds of you believing me aren't all that high. ;-)

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Recluse, maybe drop the hookers, but keep the pills. You seem pretty fired up about the "look after yourself" stratergy, so go with what works. Once you've had some success, change the stratergy for the better.

Lifeless, agreed, that the above stratergy is not the ideal, but as someone who is so focussed on relationships being built on what YOU must do, what women require etc You may benefit by taking a smaller part of the idea, which is "shift the focus of what you should do, over to what COULD she do for you" (Little steps;)

Irma, I struggle with the whole "Joy, live in the now/moment" stuff, because the "now" i'm living is pretty crap, if I lived now feeling joy from such a crappy situation, then I would class myself as totally mental. The only way for me to move forward, is to believe there is a forward, will I be happy if I get there I dont know. Inaction over the last 10 yrs had pretty much killed me, if I am to survive, I need a job sharpish. I need to take action NOW.

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This isn't about me wanting to accept myself. This is about me wanting to be accepted by someone else so that I can have a relationship instead of always being alone. Everyone says that you have to accept yourself first. But even if you are able to accept yourself, as long as someone else won't accept you, then you're still going to be alone.

This isn't about me wanting to accept myself. For YOU it is not, but for you to make a move forward, a degree of self acceptance IS required. You cannot carry on hating yourself, and expect another to then love you.

This is about me wanting to be accepted by someone else Not everyone will accept you, but SOMEONE will. You just dont believe it because you dont accept yourself. So you need to accept yourself a little more than you do.

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I really hate when I spend a half hour writing and then my computer just shuts off...:mad:

I'll try again.

This is where I'm at too. There is infinitely more information out there that says we're not acceptable than there is that says we are. Others say that we're wrong and that we can find someone to accept us, but it's just their opinion and they can't offer any solid proof to back it up. So why should I believe them?

I wonder why you are looking for external sources to "prove" that you are acceptable? Facts, numbers, and statistics don't define your worthiness. Acceptance needs to be internal, from within yourself. Loving another has a whole lot to do with yourself. It's about coming to a realization of what you have to offer and then wanting to give your gifts to others. Love and acceptance from within makes you more available to receiving love from another.

I know I've asked this before, but why give the size of one part of your body so much power? Isn't it what's inside that counts most? It sure is to me. If given the choice between a kind-hearted man who happened to have MP and a mean-spirited man who had porn movie proportions, I'd pick the kind-hearted guy every time.

This is where we differ. I think wanting to be a good lover and concerning yourself with your partner's pleasure is one of the keys to a happy relationship, no matter what size penis you have.

But allowing yourself to receive is a gift you give to others as well. The women will likely want to please you as well. If you are so focused on their pleasure maybe you're taking some away from what they have to offer to you.

Nearlydead, what I meant by allowing the joy is that I feel some of you are suffocating any opportunities for joy as an attempt to protect yourselves from potential pain.

On a personal note, I think my H is a little insecure about this as well. He doesn't talk about it, but I know he has used the pumps and to be honest, I did NOT enjoy those experiences. It just wasn't him and I wanted him...

Maybe the best way to understand this is to take a long, hard look at it and try and to see the whys behind it.

Why does having a penis that you perceive as "less than average" make you feel that you are unacceptable? How is it that you feel having any particular size defines you and your worthiness of acceptance?

Edited by IrmaJean
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Again, because the comments and surveys tell me that I'm unacceptable to most women.

If you feel up to it, I want you to try and go deeper with this. Usually when I feel the internal struggle that you have described, it means I've been triggered and something big is there to unlock.

You feel it means that you are unacceptable to women...but why are you unacceptable to you? Why are you unacceptable to you in this way?

It could be that you are unconsciously using these surveys as a defense to getting to the real reasons why this seems to mean so much to you. It's likely painful to go there. I always liken it to walking into a burning house. But inside the flames are where the answers lie.

Maybe you need to take a breather at the moment, though. Look at it when you feel strong enough.

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If you feel up to it, I want you to try and go deeper with this. Usually when I feel the internal struggle that you have described, it means I've been triggered and something big is there to unlock.

You feel it means that you are unacceptable to women...but why are you unacceptable to you? Why are you unacceptable to you in this way?

It could be that you are unconsciously using these surveys as a defense to getting to the real reasons why this seems to mean so much to you. It's likely painful to go there. I always liken it to walking into a burning house. But inside the flames are where the answers lie.

Maybe you need to take a breather at the moment, though. Look at it when you feel strong enough.

For me the survey and anecdotal eveidence represents "the truth" gathered from far more woman than I could ever sleep with. As most of us men are more practicle than emotional, facts laid out with scientific authoritiy have way more wieght for us, than emotional statements as "joy, accept yourself" even to the point where these glib comments can drive us mad with rage, I dont even know what joy and all that is supposed to mean.

The truth appears to be from all thesurveys, forum quotes etc is that for women sleeping with smaller men, penis size matters, they would prefer larger because it feels more pleasuable. That fact cuts like a knife to us, to the point where some of us allow it to ruin our lives. To the point where the likes of myself and Lifeless have completely retreated from life all together, because of pain fear Shame etc. When Mrs Small posts that she loves her husband for 25 yrs but then loves his new bigger dick, that proof has far greater impact on us, than Irma saying It does'nt matter, by the power of 100 to 1.

The above is my emotional self talking, logically from ixpeirence I know like Mr Small I can and have given a woman great sex, and like Mr Small even with a small size I could have a long term successful relationship. (25yrs years, you get less for murder) But even though we can aknowledge that pratical expeirence we still dont fully accept it, especially when the opposite is constantly being represented in survey's and forum posts. Its like putting a plaster over and amputation.

But we are where we are. The only method is "self acceptance" even though I dont truly undersstand it, dont know how to go about getting it, and also knowing that it is like some kind of unattainable holy grail, even if I did gain complete self acceptance to the point where I was happy with myself (I'm laughing now) It will only take one woman who prefers a larger penis to completely bring me back to the real world. So for us, I truly beleive this problem is unbeatable. But I would also like to believe that I could one day get to a place where it is not as debillitating as it is now. My target would be "sorta" happy.

"Please bear with me everybody. I'm listening. I'm listening and forcing myself to be open to what you're saying. My mind is resisting so hard and the internal struggle is really unpleasant."

Progress at last! Keep writing, keep reading, keep thinking things through, and continue to try seeing things differently. Well done you.

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In the past it's always been difficult for me to let my positive side out for fear of eliciting annoyance in another with my optimistic views. I really don't want to drive anyone mad with rage. I promise that my comments are not insincere, though. It's really me. You're right in that men think more about facts than emotions, in general. I hate to think of hope as a 1 in 100 power, though. I've experienced pumped up H and didn't like it at all. It was unfamiliar and not my husband.

Edited by IrmaJean
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In the past it's always been difficult for me to let my positive side out for fear of eliciting annoyance in another with my optimistic views. I really don't want to drive anyone mad with rage. I promise that my comments are not insincere, though. It's really me. You're right in that men think more about facts than emotions, in general. I hate to think of hope as a 1 in 100 power, though. I've experienced pumped up H and didn't like it at all. It was unfamiliar and not my husband.

Your optimism is much needed here. It is good to hear a polar opposite view.

1 in 100: I meant that one negative fact/comment has 100 times the negative effect on us as, one positive comment which is usually then dismissed out of hand.

I accept the "self acceptance" is key, even though I do not truly know what it is. But when I am told "joy, hope, faith, love is two beings joined together, sharing a deep meaningfull emotional bond sharing caring blah blah etc" It just sounds a bit "star trek" and not in the real world of hard facts and expeirencce (My expeirence).

I think when you talk about sex, you are talking about making love, and the emotional female side of sex, as an expression. When I talk of sex, I mean anilmalistic hot sweaty passionate shagging. I have never made love to a woman, I have only had sex. I cannot make love to a woman before having had sex with a woman first, the only way I could do this is "love at first sigh" which is a fairytale.

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Guest ASchwartz

Hi Nearlydead,

Making love to the woman you love is both the "animalistic sex" along with the love and caring. They go together. What are your thoughts about that?

Allan

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I have been following these discussions since they began. I have an idea, which I will get to once I say a few things here. To the gentlemen who are suffering; and I truly believe that you men ARE suffering. Each and every one of you are suffering in your own personal ways, and I do not believe that one has it "Worse" than the other. Suffering is suffering.

I have been so "Interested" in these discussions that I have taken to researching it further on other sites. I have spent hours reading and it truly breaks my heart. It appears to be huge and widespread. Even though it appears that MANY men suffer with a small penis, there is still a whole host of problems that accompany that. Those "Problems" seem to range from low self esteem to thoughts of suicide or actually successfully taking ones own life.

I can understand the feelings of inadequacy and how those would come about. I understand how one would view themselves as "Defective". I empathize with the shame factor and can not even begin to imagine the damage that such a shame would do to a perfectly good soul. I can only imagine the crippling shame and humiliation that lingers long after a woman (Or man) has publicly (Or privately) turned your "Manhood" into a laughing stock amongst friends and strangers.

I have actually sat here and cried while reading the pain, shame and self hatred that you gentlemen so willingly share of yourselves. It is heartbreaking when you get to witness ANY human being that carries that level of hurt and sadness - each and every second of every day.

In sharing your lives here - if nothing else, I swear to God that I will NEVER make fun of the size of a mans penis. When I meet a man who has a small or smaller than "Average" sized penis, I will NEVER discuss that with my friends or his. I will do everything I can to make him feel "Bigger" in the areas that truly count. I will love him for WHO he is and not what resides in his underpants.

All that being said here is my "Idea"

As a woman,I can most certainly see this working - for both the man and the woman. Imagine for a moment that you just set your penis aside. Do not let it stop you from meeting a woman. Just let the meeting of the woman happen. Let's not even think about sex for right now, just focus on "Dating".

Go out to eat, to the movies, a day at the beach - whatever. If you "Click" as people, you will go out again together. Continue getting to know each other. Talk, laugh, share and have some fun. As time goes on, hold hands, snuggle while watching a movie. Enjoy each others company.

Keep your penis out of it. Keep your conditioned self hatred out of it and just enjoy being with each other because you like each other as human beings.

When discussions of sex or more intimate touching begins to occur - simply tell her that you are not ready for that commitment just yet. Explain that you have been severely damaged in the past. Not just hurt, but DAMAGED.

No one HAS to have sex with someone on the first date or even on the 100th date. Take things slowly. Sex is sex and it requires very little. So little in fact that it doesn't even require that another person be present. Sex can be had in the shower all alone. But making love is ENTIRELY different.

In order to make love, one has to have an emotional attachment. If that attachment is not there it is strictly sex. So all these "Dates" that you have gone on, all the alone time you spent together, the kind gestures of opening doors or a greeting card "Just because", the sharing, laughing, getting to know each other, the building of a relationship, the holding hands, falling asleep in her arms, watching her as she sleeps, wiping her tears and her wiping yours and the bond that is forming between the two of you - nurture it all.

When it is time for the act of making love, this is where all of the previous "Steps" will benefit that outcome. It is at this time that you can sit down and have a heart to heart discussion with her. You can be very frank and very honest about your penis size, how it has affected your life, relationships, self esteem, self worth. Share with her to the very bottom of your soul and do not leave anything out.

If she has stayed with you for this long, enjoyed your company, your personality, your demeanor and everything else about you; It means that she is falling in love with your PERSON.

You can go online together and look at pictures of penis'. Point some out that looks similar to yours. And by doing something like this, once you do take off your clothes that first time, there will be no "Surprises" She will know exactly what to expect as SHE would be the one saying "It doesn't matter to me what size it is." SHE will be the one who decided (After given all the "Information") that she wishes to make love to you.

And you don't have to just jump into bed that very second. You can discuss "Toys", oral pleasure, penetration, different positions. You can discuss what each of you enjoy - and what you don't enjoy. Plan it all out. Making love and talking about prior is nothing to be embarrassed, shy or insecure about.

Discuss, as a couple, how you both can satisfy each other. Discuss it all before you actually make love for the first time. Be ready to discuss it as you are actively making love. Do not make love in silence!!! Tell her what you like and don't like and have her do the same. Have some toys ready for vaginal penetration and switch between that and your penis. Make things interesting and enjoyable. For MOST women it is clitoral stimulation that is going to "Get the job done" Do it well!!!

Please, SOMEONE out there, just one of you gentlemen; take the risk and go MEET a woman whom you think you could have a relationship with. CREATE that relationship, nurture it and then make it happen. Be honest and open about your penis when the time comes. But don't move too quickly. Allow enough time to pass that you actually "HAVE" something with each other FIRST.

Discuss EXACTLY what she should expect once your pants are removed. IF she knows this ahead of time, it is HER decision to take the relationship to the next level.

If she does not wish to proceed, she has never seen you naked and the chance of outright humiliation is slim to none. At that point even you could actually tell her that you are hung like a horse but wanted to see just how shallow she is before committing. :( And then you do it again. You find another woman and you form a relationship and be honest and up front when the time comes so there are no "Surprises"

EVERYONE has pre-conceived ideas and expectations, not just in the area of sex or making love, but in all life's situations. Smash any pre- conceived ideas or thoughts by letting her know exactly what to expect.

And I KNOW that there are woman out there who will love you for YOU!!! The "Trick" is to allow that to happen BEFORE the penis comes out to play. Because once someone is in love with another person, things like weight, blemishes, size, deformities, etc become unimportant.

People fall in love with people, they do not fall in love with a penis, testicles, vagina or breasts. It is the PERSON that we fall in love with. Some of you men are very young and it is heart wrenching to think that you will spend your entire lives in turmoil because you were given a penis that you despise. A penis that is viewed as inadequate. One that causes much more pain than it does pleasure.

And the older men here; I am so sorry that you have endured all these years of pain and suffering. It is NEVER too late, or I hope to God that it isn't. It just can't be too late.

I want to thank each one of you for courageously sharing your stories, your pain, shame, anger, hurt, hatred, fears, humiliation. Thank you for sharing it all so openly and honestly. I have learned a lot and I will never shame, humiliate or judge a man in this way. Not ever.

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Hi Nearlydead,

Making love to the woman you love is both the "animalistic sex" along with the love and caring. They go together. What are your thoughts about that?

Allan

If you love the woman you are with, then yes you can have both.

If you do not love the woman you are with, you can enjoy anilmalistic sex. But it cannot have the emotional content of loving sex that Irma and Nutz state. Although you can still express love and caring with out feeling it.

I have never loved anyone, not even my parents. I think I am incapable.

4 women have told me they loved me, and I had good sex with all of them. But I have never loved them. I understand the difference between "making love" and "shagging" but have only expeirenced one. I do not feel like I have missed out in anyway.

In your article that I linked to above, you mention mindfulness meditation, do you have any links to further information about this technique.?

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Nuckin, thanks for your post and welcome.

Your version of dating, and building a relationship slowly that leads to sex, is not what women under 70 expect today. I have tried to hold off sex with women. Each time they have wanted to know whats wrong.

Every woman I have slept with, is a witness to my size, and then an opinion, good or bad or indifferent. Therefore has the potential to ruin what ever social circle I build, and what ever confidence I may of gained, by simply opening her mouth, usually without thinking about concequences for men like me.

Your scenario for dating may of been socially acceptable in 1949, but not in 2009. If I took my time, held off from sex to build a relationship to the point of being comfortable about confessing my fears, I guarantee the average woman would think I was gay, or there was something wrong with me. How many women would I have to humiliate my self with to find the woman you talk of.

If you had a double mastectomy, would you recommend the smae method of dating. How would you feel at the moment of the "Reveal" Sexy? Confident? No? Think then how hard it is to then be able to get and erection at that point. Dating or "falling in love" is a rotten game no matter how you spin it.

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Well, as a forty-something guy who plans to return to the dating scene eventually, I'd like to say my idea of dating is much like Nuckin's, and I tend to aim a little younger than 70. :-)

Of course, you don't have to do things that way, but it's not quite as ludicrous as you make it sound. If she asks why you're going slow, you could just say that you want to get to know her better. If she thinks that makes you gay, perhaps the problem is in her perceptions.

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