What's He Going to Do?

[LaLa]

I hope you don't mind that I'm going to share one "experience" from my session, even though it's a bit "out of topic". (Well, maybe it's not that much out )

I've mentioned already several times in my letters to my therapist that sometimes I wish to hug him (and sometimes at least to touch him gently). And today, he commented on it for the 1st time! I had supposed that it would be very embarrassing to me (I can write about it, but never felt a need to talk about it), but it finally wasn't! Surprisingly, I can say it was even pleasant, mostly because of the way he handled this topic. Now, I really don't want to make a "misterious" impression , but... I don't want to write more, because... well, it wouldn't help anybody, as these topics are so intimate and the experiences so individual, that... if somebody else deals with the same issue, his experience of talking about it with the therapist would be also very personal and probably different from mine, so... I can't tell to anybody "what he can expect". I can only tell you that a good therapist can really "handle you with care" [-this reminds me the song from Travelig Wilburys ] and kindness... And I'm writing about it also because I feel so good now and want to share this feeling...

P.S.: I hope I haven't moved you to tears!!! :-((( Because you can see here I'm so happy now... I wish so much you could find a hope in my words! A hope that you'll come to this point soon, too.

[tobeistohope]

I'm so glad you are happy and you had a good experience with your therapist, Lala! It has been a productive day, even though it was hard to get to. I had a meltdown at work and left there and drove and cried for about 30 minutes. Not really feeling better yet, really drained, but, I'm hoping I feel better soon, and I wrote my therapist and told him what happened. I wanted to call him in the middle of it, he always tells me at the end of every session to call if I need him, but, I never have because I don't kinow what he could have done and I'm not sure if he would really want me to call.

[LaLa]

Hello, Tobeornottobe,

I don't know what he could have done and I'm not sure if he would really want me to call.

I don't have any experience with calling to my theapist, he even never told me if I can call him (we only send SMS to each other when he needs to cancel a session, and I've also written him few times in SMS something I wanted him to know/ask "right now", but not in a situation when I was feeling bad). But this is not relevant to your question.

Just try to imagine the situation of your therapist: Why would he tell you "you can call me anytime when you need it", it it wasn't true??? He surely tells this to all his patients about which he knows/supposes that they need this possibility. Thus it's very probable that some people sometimes call him. So "he knows how it is". It wouldn't be a "strange/unusual" situation for him if you called him. He knows how it is and "despite of" this experiences - and at the same time also "thanks to them"! - he told you to call him when you need it. He knows it can help you and he wishes to help you! Where is the problem? I suppose the problem is you think "he wouldn't like to talk to somebody like me even in his free time". Am I right? (I know this from my own experience... not with calling, but with writing. But he told me he's always looking forward to my letters! It was so hard to believe at the beginning, but now... it seems I really believe him. I feel I know him already too well to know that he doesn't lie to me...) I'm sorry, I don't know what else to say than: Don't forget that it's you who think that you are "so unlikeable", not him!

The only question is when you really need it. This is hard to decide, I suppose. Because... feeling like "I'd like to call him" but not to call him can probably bring you a good feeling "I'm strong enough to cope also without his immediate assistance!" I imagine that you could for example give yourself a time limit: "If the feeling I need to call him doesn't disappear after "this" period of time, then I call him." And when you call him, you will also feel good: "I was strong enough to call him!" What do you think? Too optimistic?

[LaLa]

Do you also imagine every week, how will your next session "look like"?

For my next session, I have a "plan" I'd like to share (I hope I can do it in this thread - it seems to me you could also be interested in it).

First I have to introduce some facts:

I'm always looking forward to my therapist and I almost always feel very good (or at least good) after our session. But... despite of this, I realize that I can't really enjoy the session when I'm there. When I think about it or about him, it can be so very pleasant, but when I'm sitting in front of his door and waiting for him, I'm always, always anxious at least to some extend. And when I'm there, he can be kind, smiling, laughting, ... anything, but I'm never able to really, deeply enjoy it. (For expamle, when he told me last week, how much he's always looking forward to my letters and that they are an extra reward for him, I told him very sadly: "Hm. Now I should be pleased, shouldn't I?" And I felt pleased when I left!) So, logically, I was thinking about this quite a lot. And I realized that "the problem" is probably so simple: "The problem" is "me". My presence. The fact that he is seeing me, that he is percieving me! And I also realized that it's much better when I'm talking. Because when I'm talking, I'm like "hiding myslef behing the words"! I hope he's percieving "the words" and not "myslef" so much.

And this is my plan for the next session: I'd like to sit there in silence (first, I'll tell him "I'm going to do an experiment; I'm going to be still. [...]") for at least 5 minutes. And I'd like to analyze my feelings during the silence and find out, why I "feel bad". What am I fearing? Am I? Can't I get rid of the feeling when I realize that it's unsubstantiated? Can't I enjoy the simple fact that "I'm there with him" knowing that I really don't have a "substantial" reason for not to be able to enjoy it? ...

My therapist once told me about his very interesting experince with silence in therapy (this will be only by my own words, of course): "Our supervisors told us that silence in therapy is important to the same extend as the words. But I wasn't able to imagine it: Silence? Only sitting and saying nothing? But then, I had a patient and during one session, we didn't say a word! She and me, we both were pretty ... [ I don't remeber the word he used and I can't find any English word to describe it... it was something like "we felt so strange, it was so unusual and unexpected], but during the next session, we both agreed that it was right, that it was really the only right way how that session should be and we understood why." He told me this in the context that ... is not important here; I mention it because it's interesting and because it was my inspiration: When he told me that (several months ago!), I started to imagine how it would be to sit there in silence for the 45 minutes. My conclusion was: I would fear my own feelings and thoughts! But now, I feel ready to do the experiment I described here. I don't want not to talk all the time, only 5-10 minutes, maybe more - if this wouldn't be enough to realize what I fear so much and... to learn to enjoy the fact I'm there with him

I'm so very curious!!!

[tobeistohope]

Wow! You described in your last post exactly how I feel! I imagine our next session together all the time and I enjoy that, but, sitting there in the waiting room my stomach has so many butterflies in it! And, yes, it is because I know he is looking into me. Analyzing me. Seeing inside me the things I don't even want to see. His eyes are so very caring and also peircing at the same time, like he can see right through me, but with caring. And I suppose I do believe he doesn't really want me to call because why should he? And silence is very hard for me. There are times when there is just 10 or 15 seconds of it and I can't stand it! I always tell him to please say somethingl and end the silence! I really enjoy reading your posts and I learned today that I am not the only one who has some of these feelings! Thanks for sharing!

[tobeistohope]

I would really like if some of you therapists to post on whether my therapist really does want me to call him if I'm having an extra hard time or if he probably just means if I have to change my appt or something like that? He always says after we make the next week's appt, "Call me if you need me before then".

Thanks

[tobeistohope]

I would have seen my therapist yesterday if he handn't been on vacation. This 2 weeks is really beginning to get long. Not that I would ever say that he doesn't need a vacation, I'm sure he does, with all that he hears on a daily basis, it must be very tiring at times. I had a kind of a crisis come up last night. My son's dad is coming up here from Kansas this week. The woman he was living with kicked him out. He says he wants to be closer to Josh, but, what he really wants is someone to take care of him. We have been divorced for about 12years, this happening after he mosested my daughter when she was 2. She is now 16. It's a terrible situation. I want my son to have his dad, but he cannot stay here because that would not be fair to my daughter. On top of that, he has no money, no car, and I know he is going to want to stay here and I'm going to have to tell him he is going to have to stay at the homeless center. I worry about my kids a lot. I just want them to have a childhood absent of trauma so they will have good lives. :confused:

[IrmaJean]

My therapist once told me about his very interesting experince with silence in therapy (this will be only by my own words, of course): "Our supervisors told us that silence in therapy is important to the same extend as the words. thoughts!

I always felt the most connected with my therapist during moments of silence. A lot of times, the thoughts/feelings were jumbled and I needed time to process it all. It was also useful in allowing the moments, identifying and getting in touch with my feelings. Because having the connection was ultimately the most important thing to me, this was what I tried to connect with during the silence. I wanted meaningful relationships and was trying to experiment with ways to let my walls down in a safe place. So I would try to feel his energy...and I would sense him quite strongly. There is a space in which one feels held emotionally. Was I projecting what I needed? Hard to say. But I felt accepted, understood, nurtured and held in a spiritual sense. This emotional "holding" was my secure base and gave me free reign to explore my feelings and to self-reveal. If I felt myself wavering, I could catch myself, stop...and return to the place of security before moving on once more. Fascinating stuff. Sometimes silence mutes the outside noise and gets one right to the heart and soul of the matter.

[LaLa]

Hello, Tobeornotobe,

I'm sorry that you're in such a situation and, moreover, just when your therapist has his vacation... I'm glad you wrote here about it .

Wouldn't you like to write more? It sound a bit strange to me that you didn't mention your own relationship to your ex - this may be the sign that you always think about the others and their needs and not about you and yours. So... how do you feel about his return?

You mentioned that you'd like to have a father for your son but this would be unfair to your daughter. But would you be able to accept this man again? Wouldn't it be only your wish "not to harm him", "not to be "cruel" to him by sending him to the homeless center"? Or your only reason of the refuse is the feeling about your daughter?

By the way, these days, I've read some papers and book chapters about "paternal deprivation" (because my mum is single, I don't know anything about my father and never wanted to know). It was quite interesting... But I'm not going to mention it here; the questions I posed you are important now. I only wanted to say that... the fact that your son is also in therapy is probably a very good thing for him also in this regard (I don't know his diagnosis/problems :confused: - you didn't mention... but anyway, the therapist should be very benefical to him also in the context of his "paternal deprivation" and that's why it's good that he started therapy as a child, not as an adult, which is harder to change... ).

[LaLa]

http://www.depressionforums.org/articles/1562/1/Depression-symptoms-often-improve-with-exercise/Page1.html

[tobeistohope]

IrmJean: Seems as though when a silence occurs in my therapy, it is so uncomfortable for me that I ask him to speak. Maybe I will get more used to it, idk.

LaLa: Unfortuneately, my son does not talk in therapy. I wish he would, but I figure if I keep taking him, maybe soemday he will. As for how I feel about his dad, I thought we would be together for the rest of our lives, but he did the one thing I could not allow when he hurt my daughter. Anymore, I am just mad because I know he is coming because he has no other place to go and he will try and use me to meet his own basic needs...shelter, food, etc. I'm sure you will agree that I cannot allow this man to be near my daughter, it would bring back all the bad memories and I cannot guarentee that he won't do it again. I have to think about the kids right now and not me.

[IrmaJean]

Our sons share the same name, TBONTB. My daughter also refused to talk in therapy. Not a word. Is your son shy or anxious? This situation sounds very difficult for both of you. Have you considered family therapy?

[LaLa]

Tobeornottobe, I admire how strong you are in your attitude toward your ex and your children ... I can see they are all you have and you want to protect them. I suppose it would be very hard for all of you to accept him as a "new" member of you family, thus you decided not to risk and not to disturb the "peace" you have (even if it's not an ideal situation, either). But I ask you about your own feelings, because maybe you'd need to express them "somewhere". You don't have to do it here, you can wait until your next (or any other) therapy session, of course. But I try to use this forum to... "get yourself in touch with your own feelings, even when hidden very deeply". I hope I'm not going too far... :confused:

How old is your son? And did he tell you something about his therapy (and why he refuses it), or he refuses to talk about it with you, too? (Or your therapist didn't recommend you to talk about it with him?) And I also wonder the same as IJ: Is he shy or anxious?

[tobeistohope]

My son is 14 and he just doesn't like to talk about things ever. Even with me, you know he talks about basketball and ufc and things like that, but never about his feelings, therefore, he doesn't talk to the therapist either. He has adhd and is on medication and is doing better in school, but he is the strong silent type and I know this is not good for him.

LaLa I'mnot sure what u mean about my own feelings about Josh's dad. I guess I thought I diid say how I felt about him in my last post, about I thought we would be together forever and and just being mad at him for never reallly being a dad and for always wanting everyone to take care of him. Do u mean is there other deeper feelings about this situation. Well I hate what he did to my daughter and I hate that we had to divorce. But, I could not allow that to go on and I couldn't trust him to be alone with her ever again.

[LaLa]

I start by the 2nd topic:

I didn't mean anything concrete, I asked only to know if there was "anything more" . I'm sorry that it probably sounded strange ... (My motivation was, as I stated, my feeling that when there is a problem, you mainly think about the impact on others, not on yourself. This can be sometimes/often a problem (I know it from my experiences with myself...), that's why I "payed attention to it". But now I see this was not the right case, as in this situation, there is nothing more to ask about in this direction...)

Your son has a chance that you care so much and pay a therapist for him . He's in a complicated age ... I started to feel suicidal when I was about 14 and I wished so much to be treated, but I never told anybody about these problems, so... I waited until I was 27 (with some better periods in the meantime, fortunately) and then I finally decided to do it for myself (and for the others as well!), to see a psychiatrist... So... when I try to imagine being in therapy as 14 yo, it sound so great to me! But... I can also imagine that when somebody feels forced to therapy, he can react by a refuse. He probably feels forced to it - what do you think? How did you convince him to go there? Was it very difficult? Was it "an order" for him? Or was he rather careless about it? And... what about trying to tell him about people like me... - would he listen to it?

My therapist, when I first saw him, told me - when I was crying that "I came too late to you; I should have come 13 years ago!!!" - that "So many people come much later; in their 50ties, for example." So I imagine that your son maybe should be told something about this. About the fact that he's lucky in some way.

And one more question (I'm sorry I'm asking so much...): Do you think he could feel somehow ashamed by the fact that he's in therapy? Did you or the therapist try to explain him that there's no reason for this?

[tobeistohope]

I don't know if he feels ashamed to be in therapy. I have told him that it is not a bad thing but a good thing that will bring about healing and maybe more happiness in his life if he will just talk to the therapist. But, he seems to have the "tough guy" thing going on and says there is never anything bothering him. But, I know he must have things that he needs to talk about, but he just won't.

Yes, I do think about the impact things have on others most of the time. I have a hard time saying no, and this gets me into situations I don't really want to be in. Like my son's father coming when I dont really want him to. I know my son needs to see his father whenever he can because his father doesn't call him for months and won't send child support. He is a user and he just wants a place to stay and I dont' want him staying here. I know he will try to talk my into it and I am dreading it.:mad:

[tobeistohope]

I'm really feeling upset right now about having to deal with my son's dad. I'm dreading it so much. He called and said if the homeless shelter doesn't take him he will just sleep under a bridge! I feel like he is trying to lay a guilt trip on me so I will let him stay here, but I feel like that is not safe for my kids, especially my daughter. I wrote my therapist about it all and told him at the end that if he happens to read the email before our next appt, I could really use some words of encouragement right now, but that if that is not good for the therapuetic relationship, or if I am out of line asking for this, that I will understand. I hope I did not do something stupid by saying this.:confused:

[IrmaJean]

Hello, tobeornottobe. How are you feeling now? I agree that you have to protect your children in this. I would hope your therapist understood your need to connect and feel supported in that moment.

[LaLa]

I hope I did not do something stupid by saying this

There isn't anything stupid in what you said I hope very much that he has an access to internet and thus will give you the support you need!

he is trying to lay a guilt trip on me so I will let him stay here

That's surely what he's trying to do. You know; I'm also very sympathetic to homeless people in general, but... in this case, you and your children are more important. By the way; did you ask your children about it? I mean; if you said them about the situation and your decision. Mainly your daughter (I think it wouldn't be a good idea to talk about it with your son...). Because if she said she doesn't want him back, you would feel even more supported in your decision (?).

By the way; I didn't talk for almost 10 minutes during today's session! And it was the therapist who interrupted the silence, not me! Because... it was close to the end and he wanted to know about my feelings during the silence. I'll write you more later. It seems to me that in this moment, this is not a very suitable topic for this thread ...

Take care! And hold on!

*hugs*

L.

[tobeistohope]

I hope so too, Irma. He only checks his emal every few days, so if I do hear from him it may be awhile.

Lala, I did ask my daughter how she felt about him maybe staying here, if only for a few days and she said, as I knew she would that only if it's only a day or two. She really doesn't want to be around him and I don't think she shoud have to. I sure wouldn't want to have to be around someone who molested me.:mad:

[LaLa]

That's very fine - you have the support of your daughter! And you do the right thing when you refuse him completely - I suppose letting him to live with you for some days could lead to problems with him not wanting to go away...

By the way, your next session is already very close ! I hope the days before it will "run" fast...

[tobeistohope]

I'm so glad my next appt is only a few days away! I really am looking forward to having someone to talk to about this and someone who will be supportive as he always is. And I am very thankful to have all of you to talk to too! I have to work tomorrow and I dread it, I really just want to lay in bed all the time since I found out he was coming.

[LaLa]

Well, maybe it's much better that you have to work. The work can at least to some extent re-direct your thoughts from your ex to something... not so stressful

So... maybe I could also "re-direct you" , in another way, here... I'm going to write you about my silence in therapy.

It was meaningful. And a little bit surprising. Now, you'll see that we are different in this regard - I hope you'll not be disappointed... Because when I described you that I had a fear from sitting in silence, it seemed that we have this in commun. But now... I have to say that the silence wasn't unpleasant to me. I felt nothing! This was strange. I was thinking a bit about IrmaJean's experiences with silence and... I was disappointed (but not emotionally, only rationally!) that I didn't feel any "connenction" or anyhing else (I only felt that the therapist was very "connected to me", but I was unable to feel connected to him!). As I already mentioned here, it was the therapist who interrupted the silence after about 7-8 minutes asking me about my feelings. And I told him: "I don't know. ... It seemed to me that I wasn't entirely here." And he asked: "And which part of you wasn't here?" I was thinking "I don't know!" but then, ... it seemed I know and I said: "I think the emotional one. I had supposed to have some emotions in the silence, but... I didn't. I wasn't anxious, I wasn't glad that I'm not anxious, I wasn't glad that I'm relaxed, ... I wan't even absolutely relaxed..." He told me that that was my typical emotional inhibition (yes, it's very typical for our sessions - I'm anxious before, pleased after, but hardly feel anything when I'm there! He's already known it, but this was another good proof...). He thinks I suppress my emotions in some situations. And I said "Yes, but it's so absurd, because I suppress them when I don't want to, but am absolutely unable to control them in many situations when I would like to suppress them! :mad:" But it was the end of the session, so... he told me only something like "this is a good starting point for the next session! ."

And we also discussed my transference. Well, we didn't call it like that. He said that all my letters are full of proofs that I like him a lot. And I said: "Yes, but it's axiomatic." [i don't know how to translate it; the word axiomatic seems best to me, because I mean it like "there is no other possibility than to like him a lot". So I will use this word here.] He said: "No, it's not axiomatic at all!" I didn't know what to say. I probably asked him what it is then. He said something like that it's great and he's very pleased that I like him so much. And I said: "What else could you tell me..." Hm. I'm sorry, my memory is so bad - I don't know what he replied. It seems to me that this time he left it without a comment. But... maybe he said something but I forgot it, because it all seemed so... same to me. He was trying to convince me that my relationship to him is something very positive and special. But, as I mentioned before, I didn't feel anything. It was even a bit sad, because I realized that "I should feel good about such positive words", but... So... I think my main goal for the next sessions will be to overcome somehow this emotional inhibition. It's even funny that... I have a feeling that "it's better for him when I'm so "inhibited"!" - maybe this is the clue; I should not think this (but in the same time, I know it's not true; I know it would be better even for him if I wasn't inhibited!).

So... I think that's all for today.

I wish you a nice weekend!

[tobeistohope]

Well, I'm glad u had a meaningful experience with the silent time with your therapy. I plan on asking mine why the silence is so annoying to me!

And it's great that he said that he likes you a lot!

I never heard from mine, even though I told him I needed some encouragement. Maybe I was out of line, asking for it outside of the "hour". I don't know. I guess he is maybe still on vacation and maybe he hasn't checked his email. I really would have liked to talk to him, if even for a few minutes, but I will make it. I will be glad when it is 3 PM on Monday!

I went and picked up my son's father at the bus station. I am feeling very emotional, mixed feelings. I know he has to go by Monday, I told him so, that it wouldn't be good for my daughter,and he sais ok, but for some reason, I am sad also.

[LaLa]

I wish you that the Sunday passes quickly for you! Your therapist was probably off-line all the time to have a real vacation, without any "work". I know it's hard for you , but you succeeded to "sustain" it and that's important

I'm sorry my post was so confusing! I haven't written that he told me he likes me; really! He didn't! He only told me he is looking forward to my letters and likes to read them (I finally asked him why and he told me that in the letters he can see much more that during our sessions, he can see how I percieve the world and, mainly, there are many emotions which I suppress totally when I'm with him). And he said that he's glad/pleased that I like him so much. But didn't tell me if he likes me. Only that I want him to like me. And when I said that it's logical, because if he hated me, it would be very unpleasant to meet every week and thus it's logically better if he likes me - and his reaction was only a laughter and an absurd comment (he likes to often turn things into very absurd conclusions - it's funny and I'm sure it's also his tool to show me how absurdly some things can be seen): "Well, it would be strange to meet here gnashing our teeth :D" No, he has never told he likes me! But I don't expect it; I'm sure he cannot tell such things. Sometimes I think that he doesn't and that's why he doesn't comment on this topic, but... well, he's so nice to me that... I can't imagine or believe that it's all only pretending! As I have alredy mentioned here; I'm sure every therapist has to like all his clients to some extent, because it would be impossible to help them if he didn't. Thus I'm sure your therapist likes you, but I'm not sure if it would be a good idea to ask him about it... Look: He proofs you that he likes you by his approach to you; you don't need words to know it . I suppose that's what they try to teach us: To believe that people who are really good to us like us and don't pretend (?).

I plan on asking mine why the silence is so annoying to me!

That's a very good idea! But... be prepared that he might ask you what my therapist surely would: "What do you think; why?" ;-)

Good luck!!!