I'm not normal

[siddiqui]

I'm thinking of this the other way around. Stronger feelings of love translates to more pleasure.

Just offering my personal thoughts...

http://dfred.bol.ucla.edu/LeverFrederickPeplau-2006PMM-PenisSizeSatisfaction.pdf

That right there is the most objective and scientific article on this topic. Regarding more pleasure leads to more love.

"For women as for men, there was an association between ratings of penis size and satisfaction with penis size. The vast majority of women who reported that their partner was average or large were very satisfied with their partner’s penis size (86% and 94%, respectively). In contrast, the majority of women (68%) who rated their partner as small wished their partner had a larger penis. Fortunately for men, however, only 6% of women rated their partner as smaller than average"

In the discussion... "The majority of women who judged their partner’s penis as small, however, were not satisfied."

My penis is small, there's no denying that. Extrapolated this means around 70% would never be fully satisfied

[malign]

The article is objective enough, but what about your interpretation of the article?

How about that last line: "... only 6% of women rated their partner as smaller than average"? That means that 42% of men who are smaller than average have partners who see them as average, and are generally satisfied. That means that women, on average at least, are actually fairly forgiving.

And what motivates their biased estimate of size if it's not that their love for their partner makes them feel satisfied sexually, which is what IrmaJean said?

[siddiqui]

The article is objective enough, but what about your interpretation of the article?

How about that last line: "... only 6% of women rated their partner as smaller than average"? That means that 42% of men who are smaller than average have partners who see them as average, and are generally satisfied. That means that women, on average at least, are actually fairly forgiving.

And what motivates their biased estimate of size if it's not that their love for their partner makes them feel satisfied sexually, which is what IrmaJean said?

Yes obviously. 6% who rated their partner as small. I don't just have SPS. I do have a 4 inch penis that women would rate small. They're fairly forgiving because of what IrmaJean said. There are other things to relationship satisfaction BUT STILL a huge chunk of it does result from physical stimuli. I mean I would definitely know that I would never be able to please a woman as a man with an average sized penis would.

Surgery sounds very appealing

[malign]

But you don't actually know how women would rate it: you've never asked one, especially one who was in love with you. We already know how you rate it, or you wouldn't be here. But it's not entirely objective, is it, to say how women would rate it if you never ask a woman?

The study shows a marked correlation between satisfaction and estimates of size relative to average. But you undoubtedly know that that doesn't imply causation, in any way. In particular, it could even be argued that higher satisfaction causes women to rate their men as average or above, rather than the other way around. And that's also what's implied by the 6% number: obviously, if women were accurate and unbiased judges of size, it should have been 50%. So the study actually shows that women are poor estimators of size and that their estimate correlates strongly with their sexual satisfaction level. This could, for instance, account for women who were not satisfied with a prior boyfriend, for any reason including emotional, who go on to estimate that he was smaller than average, whether he really was or not.

I assume you've checked out the actual success rates and side effects of any existing surgical option. I can't give you competent medical advice, but I hope you'll get some, and I don't mean your own opinion.

[siddiqui]

But you don't actually know how women would rate it: you've never asked one, especially one who was in love with you. We already know how you rate it, or you wouldn't be here. But it's not entirely objective, is it, to say how women would rate it if you never ask a woman?

The study shows a marked correlation between satisfaction and estimates of size relative to average. But you undoubtedly know that that doesn't imply causation, in any way. In particular, it could even be argued that higher satisfaction causes women to rate their men as average or above, rather than the other way around. And that's also what's implied by the 6% number: obviously, if women were accurate and unbiased judges of size, it should have been 50%. So the study actually shows that women are poor estimators of size and that their estimate correlates strongly with their sexual satisfaction level. This could, for instance, account for women who were not satisfied with a prior boyfriend, for any reason including emotional, who go on to estimate that he was smaller than average, whether he really was or not.

I assume you've checked out the actual success rates and side effects of any existing surgical option. I can't give you competent medical advice, but I hope you'll get some, and I don't mean your own opinion.

Well I know I've never asked, but there's the statistical probability that it's more likely in my case that she would desire a bigger one. It's also more than sex. A large phallus does erotically stimulate women. But that's besides the point. It's statistically more likely that she would like an average sized penis. And once she's had sex with average sized penises it's highly likely (note the use of word likely, as in statistically more likely) she would enjoy that more. And there goes the reward system and the pleasure and love.

The direction of causality cannot be determined if that's what you mean. I mean it could be the other way. People with just better self image just view their penises as average rather than people who have average or larger penises having better self image and confidence. It's a moot point because this study did not measure penis size objectively in inches or cm. So we don't know whether those that rated their penises small were actually small or not. In my case IT IS small, IT IS 4 inches which is below the 2nd percentile.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Penis_percentile.svg

I did check the success rates and complications. There are serious complications but there are some promising centers that are showing better and better results each year. I'm flying out to New York in 3 weeks (I got offered a research fellowship, the only thing that's been good in the last 6 months) and would definitely have this on the agenda.

[Jessie]

you have done the same research I did 3 years ago.

there is also the astonishing close link between the 84% of women that are 'satisfied' with their partners size and those men which are above or better.

Guess what that percentage is?.... EXACTLY 84%...

In addition you have the issue of 'female generosity' that Malign touched upon.

ie it takes quite a bit of 'candidness' to admit your partner is sexually inadequate i.e. 'is too small"

so the 16% that were 'unsatisifed' is probably under-reported.

Conversely I accept Its POSSIBLE that at the other end there were women that said their partner was too small due to other emotional gripes but this is, to my mind, not plausible.

Women are not un-intelligent. they know 8 inches is more than 4 no matter what their views of a guy.

I may hate Rhianna (because she hates small guys like me) but objectively she is pretty.

I may hate Arnie, but its clear he is a tall man.

So a woman may love or hate a guy but she can still, to a degree, estimate his penis size.

Her ability to 'accept' his size maybe dependant on feelings, but not her objective assessment if its size or adequacy.

sigh.... sometimes I wish I didnt understand maths and trends so well- i blame my teachers....

[siddiqui]

You've just said a lot of what I've been thinking. It's kind of relieving knowing there's someone who thinks that way. But I really can't come to terms with it which is why I'm considering surgery

Also I just saw this video you posted on another thread. You're right it is VERY honest and just absolutely crushes me

[Jessie]

yeah... there are some hurtful truths in there.... for me it reminded me of many conversations I have heard from girls over the years...

at least this one was trying to be nice.... as was her 1st video on the matter.

However there were some sparks of light in what she said.... even for guys like me and you

Also she was very pretty and her friends are 'probably' similar and surveys show prettier women are more demanding about size... I suspect women of average attractiveness have slower standards/expectations.

[siddiqui]

Also she was very pretty and her friends are 'probably' similar and surveys show prettier women are more demanding about size... I suspect women of average attractiveness have slower standards/expectations.

Doesn't that hurt you? It hurts me to no end. I mean I feel like curling up and just dying. It's that argument that women who have lower standards will 'setle' for you. I've seen that argument play out in many of the threads on this forum. It ends bitter. And usually I end up siding with the negative posts. Please tell me you're not filtering out prettier women because of that.

[Jessie]

yes - it hurts.

But time will soothe that... a little...

My last 4 proper relationships were with very nice but very attractive girls.... they all rejected my size (in as nice a way as they could manage but still....).

I think if I had fallen for less attractive girls there is a strong chance I would be in a couple right now.

the academic research is there so its not like Im being irrational.

I have accepted my situation and I want to improve my chances of success.

I do filter out very pretty girls I suppose. If I want a girl to overlook a physical imperfection in me, then surely I should do the same for them?

are we not all pretty inside? I may be small but that doesnt excuse hypocrisy on my part.

I understand the pain- but Im trying to get past that to build a life...

[dvnJ22]

I just don't care anymore, if 70% of women want a centaur then fine. I don't care about what biology or evolution has programmed women, I don't care about studies, society, women, men. I'm not going to let a world that prays for peace and makes weapons at the same time drag me down. I'm going to let a world were sex is validation for existence get me down. It's a mad, and cancerous world

[Jessie]

maybe... but its the only world with chocolate on it.......

[dvnJ22]

I just can't take people serious anymore. Just look at the attention the Boston bombings got while, hundreds of people in china died from earthquakes, millions of children die everyday from lack of food and water, America drops bombs on innocents. Humans the cruelest animal because were the only ones that can do it artistically.

[Jessie]

humans have lots to answer for. we can be cruel.

but we can also be caring and decent and altruistic....

[dvnJ22]

And those are the one's I spend my time with. Not people that are so shallow they are transparent. And if I can't find them, then being by myself is better.

[Notdoneyet]

I've been gone for a while since the link I always used to get to this board is no longer active.

All I can say to any of you who visit here is that EVERYBODY who comes here regardless

of their gender, are troubled by the "hand" fate has delt them. This is true be it a guy with a

smaller than average sized penis, or a woman who is trying to help her potential SO deal with

his anxiety because of it.

Once you manage to disregard how others feel about this "handicap" and concentrate on

making a good living and providing for YOURSELF, you will find a companion who will

wish to share your life with you.

NOTHING VENTURED, NOTHING GAINED.

[gone]

maybe... but its the only world with chocolate on it.......

'Specialy dark bittersweet chocolate!

[gone]

yes - it hurts.

But time will soothe that... a little...

My last 4 proper relationships were with very nice but very attractive girls.... they all rejected my size (in as nice a way as they could manage but still....).

I think if I had fallen for less attractive girls there is a strong chance I would be in a couple right now.

the academic research is there so its not like Im being irrational.

I have accepted my situation and I want to improve my chances of success.

I do filter out very pretty girls I suppose. If I want a girl to overlook a physical imperfection in me, then surely I should do the same for them?

are we not all pretty inside? I may be small but that doesnt excuse hypocrisy on my part.

I understand the pain- but Im trying to get past that to build a life...

Jessie, I hope you don't dismiss all attractive ladies because of this. The one you're looking for might be the next stunning lady you meet. You'll be passing up a lot of potential mates if you impose restrictions.

Date them all with no intentions of sex for a while. If they have a good time and want to date more, you're better than halfway home with an honest relationship.

John

[siddiqui]

Even a woman as nice as the one on this thread is willing to dump a guy JUST because of his size. So no I don't believe women are willing to look past it IrmaJean. This basically nullifies your point of stronger feelings of love lead to more pleasure. In this case they were in love but the size just ruined things

http://www.network54.com/Forum/100523/thread/1109031275/last-1110834342/unusually+small+penis

Surgery is the only hope

[malign]

Please y'all: stop popularizing web links you don't like. Every time you post a link somewhere, you increase the search score of the thing you linked to.

That said ... So, there exists a woman, who seems nice in a video, who would dump a guy just because of his size. {I haven't watched it, but ...} We only have her word that they were in love, but she wasn't able to deal with his size. How does that affect you, again? Unless you meet this particular woman ...

Weren't you the guy who wouldn't accept anecdotal evidence?

[IrmaJean]

I have mentioned confirmation bias before, but maybe it's worth mentioning again. This occurs when people tend to seek out and believe information that confirms what they already believe to be true. If you found a different link of a woman who supported the view I offered, how do you think you might have responded to it?

[siddiqui]

Malign you're right I shouldn't be looking up such things it only gets me down and yes it is confirmation bias. It just shows how preoccupied I am with this. And yes I'm not a fan of anecdotal evidence but things like this just hit a raw nerve

On confirmation bias, I've tried looking for links to different women who supported the view you offered but they talk so so so vaguely about and abstractly about love and relationship they don't really say any concrete things about the sex.

[siddiqui]

It's not a video, it's a thread on another forum, it's about this woman who really wants to make it work with an amazing guy with a small member. I don't blame her when she decided to end it. She tried her best

[IrmaJean]

Perhaps it's just a different approach to sex? The view I offered matches with my personal feelings. I think of sex as something much deeper than simply the physical aspect of it. That is not to deny the physical aspect of it, but there's so much more to it, in my view. Connection, love, sharing...

What else is happening in your life, siddiqui? Do you have friendships, activities you enjoy?

[siddiqui]

I recently graduated from Med school (class of 2012), been EXTREMELY depressed the last 9 months. Been on SSRIs the last 5 of them.

I started a new job at Columbia University as Postdoctoral research fellow, mostly to make myself busy so I can stop brooding. Today was my 3rd day and only today did I start thinking about all this again. I have several meaningful friendships. I love skin diving, and trekking, anything outdoors (but NY is a concrete jungle). I enjoy reading books.