shame

[notmary]

never mind *************

Edited September 12, 2010 by notmary

[notmary]

sad, scared, fighting to stay in the present even though his voice is trying to drag me back. new memory dancing around the surface. will there ever be an end? will i still be here if it does...

[malign]

I don't know the future, Mary. But you're still here, now. If you can beat these memories, one by one, in the now, then there's no reason you can't come through it.

And have a chance to be you, then.

[notmary]

I guess my question should be what does it mean to beat these memories or face these memories. i have these memories pop up. they are graphic and horrible and frightening. they leave me defeated and each time every time i am awashed in shame again. I am left feeling like the dirtiest most horrible human being around. I try to share the memories with my therapist but I am left less than before. I dont beat the memories the memories beat me.

[malign]

Can you tell me what it would mean to you, to beat these memories? You say that each time, you're defeated by them. Yet you're still standing, still alive despite thoughts of ending it, still fighting them here and in your therapy.

I believe that with each memory you can acknowledge, you're left more than you were before. Now you know what you're facing. You know the worst about yourself, and the worst is that some adult forced you to do things no child should have to do. The memories contradict what he told you and what you've been telling yourself ever since, that you had any choice in the matter at all.

I know I'm just a person on the other end of the internet, but I believe you're winning, Mary.

[Endlessnight]

Mary, when someone told me to write down my memories I asked, 'what's the point?', or 'then what?'. I felt it was a waste of time. But as I said in my other post to you, i've realised that talking about it, getting it written down and out of my system has helped me. It kind of snuck up on me by surprise. I know how painful memories can be, and how hard it is to write or talk about such things, but do you think if you were to let them out here, write about them, it might help you too? Maybe to make it a little easier you could write about it in the 3rd person like I have been doing?

My thoughts and best wishes are with you Mary. Take care.

[IrmaJean]

Is there a place in your mind where you can go to take the painful edge off of these memories? Perhaps a place of serenity that you find comforting. Maybe imagine a space where little Mary is safe and you are lovingly caring for her... until you are able to find your center again.

I hope today passes peacefully for you, Mary. Wishing you well.

[notmary]

Thank you Malign, Endless, and Irma Jean. I appreciate your continued support and input and I am sorry that I am so dense (? don't know if that is the word I want) and slow in this. I am frustrated with myself so I am sure that you are more so.

Mark I have been thinking a lot about the question you asked me about beating these memories. My first thought was I would make them go away when suddenly I had the horrilbly sad realization that I can't make them go away. I guess I was still acting like the 8 year old thinking that I can magically make something disappear. Since then I feel almost grief-stricken as if someone has died,. I don't know the answer to the question about how I can beat the memories. I guess the answer is I cant.

Endless I have done some writing about my memories. I think sometimes it just helps me straighten it out in my F-upped brain. I do worry that I shouldn't post them because it is then out there for anyone to see.

Irma Jean, I am trying to find a way to protect and touch base with the little girl. It is very unnatural because I feel such anger and hatred towards her. His voice becomes louder and angrier when I try to reach her.

thanks for listening

[malign]

Mary,

I agree with you that you probably won't forget. In fact, I think it might tend to trivialize how horrible those memories are, to believe that you could forget. You might not need to remember as urgently or as often as you do now, but you'll probably always remember.

But there may be other ways to define "winning", here.

The flashbacks you have appear to contain three elements: the memories themselves, which contain the knowledge of what happened back then; the understandably strong emotions associated with the memories; and value judgments about you, which are thoughts with which your young self tried to explain what was happening to her.

So, one way that you might be able to defeat the memories, then, might be that you gradually feel the emotions associated with them, less sharply. You won't forget the emotions, either, but you might not need to feel each of them in its entirety, after a while.

I don't honestly know whether, or to what extent, that is possible. I have no comparable experience in my life to relate it to, and no training about what a person with PTSD experiences.

But I'm pretty sure there's another place to work on this problem, and that's with the conclusions your young self came to about what happened. Those are thoughts, and they're the thoughts of a young girl who didn't have a trusted adult to help her think about these things.

You can be that adult, for yourself, Mary. If you can back out of the active memories long enough, "unblend" from the experience-as-it's-happening that your memory is replaying for you, you can start to send your little girl different thoughts, adult thoughts. As an adult, you know who was responsible. You know how children should be treated, and that how he treated you was wrong. You know she couldn't have made the choices that caused the abuse.

Maybe if you can convince that little girl, and yourself, that the awful things you believe about yourself as a result of the abuse are wrong, that might be considered "beating" the memories.

[notmary]

i dont know anymore mark... iam so sad and feel like a failure. i protect the children i teach and i would fight to the death to protect my own children. but the little girl i was i cant seem to help or protect. his explanations for what happened and why seem to be ingrained in me and i try to argue with him and i am trying to protect her... ughhhh i just am so tired of this and i dont know

[Endlessnight]

Mary, there is no need to apologise for anything. You are not a failure and you are not dense. If I feel frustration, it's only because I want to reach out to the girl in you and hold her and I can't. I know how alone she feels because that's how the girl in me feels too.

I don't know if you posting some of your memories here would help you or not, only you can know that. I had many reservations about writing my own memories here. I knew it would be very painful to put myself, that girl, out there for all to see, but I also knew that she wanted to be heard. She had kept quiet all these years and now she wanted to know that someone was listening and had heard her pain.

I'm sorry i'm going on about myself here, but I am hoping that by telling you about my own feelings it might help you in some small way. I hope so anyway. Take care my dear, and remember that we hear your pain.

[finding my way]

and maybe give it all some more time? You've only recently begun to go against what you were programed to believe about your little girl. You can't protect her and protect his lies at the same time:o

Be easy on you, Mary....

[notmary]

the monster gave her a bath and would wash her longer than he needed to and he would rub her private areas and laugh when she squirmed and then he stuck his fingers where they shouldnt be and she tried to make him stop by splashing at him and he slapped her and then he told her mother and her mother slapped her and told her that nice girls dont act rude and she knew she wasnt a nice girl she was a thing and he laughed at her and did it again and she knew that it was her fault she couldnt do it right so that he would stop she kept making him do it and she ate and ate but he still would be mean

[malign]

Mary,

Can your adult self see that he was just mean; that it wouldn't matter what the little girl did, that's just how he was?

You need a way to see what he did to that little girl, without becoming the little girl, each time. You're a grown woman, watching a memory, in the now. Can you maintain that point of view? You're a grown-up; you know that it was him who was doing wrong.

[SweetSue]

Hi Mary

Sorry that your memories are so painful.

You have done nothing wrong, none of what happened to you as a little girl is your fault. Give the blame back to the person it belongs to (the monster), He was the one at fault - not you

I hope that you are ok

Take care

[notmary]

i am ok just kinda unable to move or function i am trying to detach from the memories i just have so much trouble but it feels like i am inn the middle of it watching from the ceiling but feeling all of it like i am there

[SweetSue]

Hi Mary

Is there something you can do to distract yourself ?

I struggle with trying to detach from my memories to, and I know just how scarey it feels at times

Maybe you could try doing some art work or reading, or go for a walk, have you tried meditation, thats a big help to me, maybe you could search the net for some peaceful pictures to look at - I do that often - it could help you too, just a thought

Take care hun

[danni]

Hi Mary,

I struggle with that at times too. Sue has some really good suggestions. I also fine doing something active to be helpful. Something that actively engages the brain sometimes makes it hard for the memories to get control.

I like to ride my horse and do the jumping course because it takes such intense concentration/counting strides etc... I also will pull out an instrument or play piano. Music is so powerful and engages both sides of the brain so can be a good healing distraction even if you just listen to it.

Sometimes it can help to have a mantra you can repeat to yourself over and over. Remind yourself that it is not happening. You are safe.

[notmary]

Thank you for the suggestions. I ended up taking s pill that helped me fall asleep . I actually slept for about 7 hours straight with no bad dreams that I can remember... that doesn't happen very often. I know that I have been exhausted and when I am so tired I have trouble being able to focus and remember a mantra or any of the other things that have calmed me and focused me in the past. Just thank you for "holding my hand" last night because it helped me feel less alone. Off to the gym now to try and sweat out the demons.

[SweetSue]

Hi Mary

Hope today is kinder to you hun

Good luck at the gym - that sounds just a bit too much like excercise for me

Take care

[notmary]

Not having any vivid memories. Thank God. Am trying very hard to be gentle to that little girl but it is very very hard. I am feeling such sadness and I guess despair is the word for her and I am fighting to not just sit here and cry. I also am having such feelings of complete rage. That is so scary to e...like out of control throwing things against the wall rage. I am trying to not turn it on me but not doing real well with that.

[finding my way]

I have been thinking and thinking and well, feeling really, that maybe there is something we could do for your little girl. Something for anyone's little one that was bullied, abused, manipulated, assaulted so horribly.

The last thing your little one feels is dignity.

Prisoners of War have a special status in the military. Many have experienced such humiliations. They are given special respect in the eyes of society. It is the least we can do for them.

Mary, how can we bestow honor on you and your little one? I want to restore you to dignity. The Chieftains have an album called "Tears of Stone" and it is in honor of women and their suffering. If I could I would give you an opal tear, or the stone of your choice, to wear as a necklace or as earrings or to put on an altar by a candle.

Maybe each person needs to search inside in a meditation for the symbol or the action that would express it best. What could you do to show your little girl that you honor her?

I know this is so very very painful. That is why I want to help:(

[Endlessnight]

Hello Mary. It was very, very brave of you to write what you did. That little girl needs to know that you, that we, feel her pain, that we know none of it was her fault, and that she is a brave little girl.

I join Finding in honouring her Mary, with my hugs, my respect, and my love.

Take care.

[notmary]

Thank you Finding and Endless night. I am trying to take your words in and not let him attack them or me. I am having a hard time doing so but I want to fight for her and not let him hurt her or me more. It honestly makes me so uncomfortable having you say these things to me because I don't think that you should be nice to me.

[jago45]

How does one learn to live with the shame of what they have been through? As these memories continue to flood my life, it s becoming increasingly clear that these things did happen to me. I am so embarassed and ashamed. I am hving a trouble interacting with anyone, and the only thng that is keeping me functioning is the routine but I am totally detached from everyone. How do you ever feel anything other than shame again?

Mental illness is nothing to ashamed about, and more than diabetes or baldness. That's one of the main problems that we face--the stigma attached to mental problems. And for all their rhetoric about eliminating the stigma of mental illness, the government is one of the main offenders. They are creating a national database now of everyone treated for such problems. If you want to get certain jobs or obtain a gun permit you must waive your right to the privacy of your medical records. If you were treated, you will be denyed. You can take your case to court but you have to find a psychiatrist willing to testify that you are "cured." Practically impossible, even assuming you had the money to hire a lawyer.

Of course, this is mostly based on sensationalist cases like the Virginia Tech shooter. They don't mention John Nash, a schizophrenic who won the Nobel Prize. Or people like Churchhill or Lincoln, who suffered from depression. The fact is that the percentage of mentally ill people who are violent is no higher than the general population.

I wouldn't blab my background to everone, but I would speak generally to remind people that mentally ill people are not violent and have an illness just as other sick people do.