whining thread

[Resolute]

if i didn't watch anything that triggers me in one way or another, i'd die of boredom. i've accumulated so many triggers over the decades, that there's really not much left that doesn't trigger me in some way. everything reminds me that i don't measure up to the "elites", and that really pisses me off.

[Resolute]

you really get me. now, had i seen that decal, i would've immediately thought of beth.

[IrmaJean]

I saw Klingsor's post and my first thought was to reply, are you sure that wasn't my little hatchback?  

Thanks for seeing me, even though the message makes you want to throw your hands up in the air (I'm sorry about that part :/ ). 

 

[Resolute]

7 minutes ago, IrmaJean said:

Thanks for seeing me, even though the message makes you want to throw your hands up in the air (I'm sorry about that part :/ ). 

don't worry about it. i'll probably just write on my hatchback, with even bigger letters: "life's an ugly bitch" lol.

[Resolute]

things are bad/negative/ugly by virtue of their existence, even things we consider beautiful, good, positive, joyous, and so on. i know this is difficult for most people to fathom, but i'll try to give a brief explanation;

nonexistence is the default state of things. and as we've established, logically, for something to start existing, it needs a cause, whereas nothingness doesn't require any cause. (one can ask how something came to be, but asking how nonexistence came to be is somewhat absurd)

furthermore, the existence of anything needs justification, unlike nothingness, which needs no such thing (because it's the default and needs no cause). one can ask "why existence?" or "why the existence of x or y...?", but asking "why nothingness?" or "why nonexistence?" is meaningless. no one has yet to offer any valid justification for existence itself, which makes it unjustified (until proven otherwise).

to me, unjustified things are bad, negative and ugly, even tho they might appear to be otherwise. i agree that there exist beautiful, joyous, pleasurable things, but i assert that they are only so illusorily and artificially, when in reality, they're ugly, bad and negative. it's not real beauty, joy, pleasure, etc. because its existence is unjustified. for a thing to be truly good/beautiful/positive/etc. its existence must, at the very least, be justified.

[IrmaJean]

My thought is that we didn't create existence, so how can we make the rules? Who decides that existence needs justification? Who decides what qualifies as justification? Some things are much bigger than me, from my perspective, and I must accept them and do my best with what I have been given.

My thoughts with respect to yours, Resolute.
 

[Resolute]

6 hours ago, IrmaJean said:

My thought is that we didn't create existence, so how can we make the rules? Who decides that existence needs justification? Who decides what qualifies as justification? Some things are much bigger than me, from my perspective, and I must accept them and do my best with what I have been given.

it stands to reason that existence would need justification. or at the very least, we, as intelligent beings, decide that it needs justification. all of human civilization is based on goals, ends and purposes. would you ever do anything without a particular end in mind? i think it's more than reasonable to demand that existence have a meaningful and justified purpose/end.

as to what qualifies as justification, i'd say that something like meaning or purpose is a start. (must be actual meaning or purpose not fake and illusory like the other things we've mentioned. for that to be established, at least two or three elements must be priorly established. these include demonstrating intelligent design, and the immortality of--our--consciousness (as temporary things cannot have real meaning or purpose in themselves.))

furthermore, if by "accept" you mean "acknowledge", no argument there. if you mean "be ok with" or "embrace", then i must strongly disagree with that assessment. no one has to embrace or be ok with anything.

[IrmaJean]

I dunno, I don't personally need justification for why life exists. I accept and appreciate that I'm here. I view life as an opportunity and I think we each may find our own purpose. It's difficult to put into words or express, but I feel this is bigger than me and who am I to question it? But because I view life as something that has been given to me that I am grateful for, I could be looking at this entirely different than you may be.

On 4/16/2016 at 9:12 AM, Resolute said:

as to what qualifies as justification, i'd say that something like meaning or purpose is a start. (must be actual meaning or purpose not fake and illusory like the other things we've mentioned. for that to be established, at least two or three elements must be priorly established. these include demonstrating intelligent design, and the immortality of--our--consciousness (as temporary things cannot have real meaning or purpose in themselves.))

But who decides all of this? I think what is meaningful and what has purpose could look very different for each person. Maybe our purpose here is to find our purpose? 

It's true that no one has to embrace or accept anything...but for me, I don't want to fight to try to bend things that are not capable of bending. I would rather put my effort and energy into that which I can change. Or at least that is what I aspire to do. It can be challenging at times for sure.

I understand that our world views and approach is entirely different, resolute. Just offering my thoughts. 

[mts]

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[Resolute]

1 hour ago, IrmaJean said:

I dunno, I don't personally need justification for why life exists. I accept and appreciate that I'm here.

i know that, beth. unfortunately, this kind of reasoning contradicts how most people, including yourself live. none of us would accept unjustified behavior, so why would you accept unjustified existence?

 

1 hour ago, IrmaJean said:

I view life as an opportunity 

indeed... life is an opportunity. an opportunity for immense suffering.

 

1 hour ago, IrmaJean said:

and I think we each may find our own purpose.

....

But who decides all of this? I think what is meaningful and what has purpose could look very different for each person. Maybe our purpose here is to find our purpose? 

this pretty much sums up your life philosophy. you have inadvertently made my point. so unless, "finding our own purpose" means that there is a predetermined purpose for each of us (which no one has even come close to demonstrating), it can only mean, "adopting/accepting a made-up purpose". that hardly justifies anything, beth.

 

1 hour ago, IrmaJean said:

It's difficult to put into words or express, but I feel this is bigger than me and who am I to question it? But because I view life as something that has been given to me that I am grateful for, I could be looking at this entirely different than you may be.

as i've said before, to those who are grateful for life, i say, "bon appetit". but those who don't want it, why should it be shoved down their throats?
 

1 hour ago, IrmaJean said:

It's true that no one has to embrace or accept anything...but for me, I don't want to fight to try to bend things that are not capable of bending. I would rather put my effort and energy into that which I can change. Or at least that is what I aspire to do.

what do you suggest those of us who can't do this do?

 

1 hour ago, IrmaJean said:

It can be challenging at times for sure.

I understand that our world views and approach is entirely different, resolute. Just offering my thoughts. 

i know. thanks for replying. i know i can be difficult.

[Resolute]

1 hour ago, mts said:

What makes you think non existence is the default state of things? Didn't we agree before true nothingness is logically impossible? In that case, it seems to me that things can only change form.

i don't think we've ever agreed that true nothingness is logically impossible. it's easily conceivable. perhaps you mean that it's impossible for an existing thing to completely stop existing. i might agree with that, but it's irrelevant to the point i was making, which is that existence itself cannot be without a cause (otherwise all of logic would collapse), but initial nothingness needs no cause.

[Resolute]

56 minutes ago, Klingsor said:

The Hindus call this samsara. The object of all orthodox religions is to escape of this cycle. This escape is "salvation" which requires a "sacrifice" of non-attachment. Simple in concept, immensely difficult in practice. 

unless i misunderstand, i think you're confusing this stuff with something else.

[tcnewexp]

8 minutes ago, Resolute said:

Indeed... life is an opportunity. an opportunity for immense suffering.

Hope you're not offended, but I couldn't help but smile at this response from you. Seems to capture your outlook in few words. 

For some, there is more suffering than for others. For some, there is more joy than for others. For some, the biggest difference is what they view as suffering and/or joy.  I truly want you to experience more joy in the future Resolute!

[Resolute]

7 minutes ago, tcnewexp said:

Hope you're not offended, but I couldn't help but smile at this response from you. Seems to capture your outlook in few words. 

i wasn't offended.

 

7 minutes ago, tcnewexp said:

For some, there is more suffering than for others. For some, there is more joy than for others. For some, the biggest difference is what they view as suffering and/or joy.  I truly want you to experience more joy in the future Resolute!

thanks, man. unfortunately, "more joy" isn't what i'm looking for. what i want is to be absolutely nonexistent, or at least for my consciousness to completely and permanently dissipate.

[tcnewexp]

11 minutes ago, Resolute said:

thanks, man. unfortunately, "more joy" isn't what i'm looking for. what i want is to be absolutely nonexistent, or at least for my consciousness to completely and permanently dissipate.

Being selfish, I love your existence on this forum. I think your existence in general has more value than you realize and I would be honored to meet you some day and share some smiles. Who knows, it just might happen. 

[IrmaJean]

Res, do you see in others some things that you admire, feel good about? If so, psychology will tell you this also exists in you.

Do you think it's possible to ever truly know the reason why we exist? How might it help you to know? Or what purpose would it serve for you to know?

Despite our differences of opinions and outlooks, perspectives, etc, Resolute, I hope you know that I care about your well-being. If you weren't here, you would be missed. Possibly too there are people you have touched during your lifetime, maybe even without your awareness, who are better off for having known you. We all matter.

[mts]

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[Resolute]

hope you feel better soon. i hope you didn't catch anything from that whore lol.

[Resolute]

thanks for asking. i'm still trying to take my walks, and still working on the money problem. shouldn't be that long before i see some green, but i gotta go to stage two of my plan; making threats. otherwise, this thing will drag on forever. they've gotta understand that i really have nothing to lose and am willing to do whatever it takes. let's hope that stage three isn't necessary.

i'm also in the process of applying for a passport (which isn't that simple in my case). after that i gotta either "address" some my legal problems, or take some more drastic measures. (i can't elaborate here)

anyway, come august, and i'm either in my destination country or in jail.

what about you, anything noteworthy? still studying etc.?

[Resolute]

perhaps it came off worse than it is. the jail thing is for getting caught trying to be smuggled out of the country (only as a last resort if i can't resolve my legal issues in a more delicate manner (bribes etc.)).

you can pm me if you want more details .

[jazz]

Here's hoping you don't end up in jail, Resolute.

I don't think that being in hell and in jail would be very nice somehow....

[Resolute]

1 hour ago, jazz said:

Here's hoping you don't end up in jail, Resolute.

thanks.

 

1 hour ago, jazz said:

I don't think that being in hell and in jail would be very nice somehow....

jail isn't so bad if you're already in hell. anyway, the imprisonment is highly improbably, but a small possibility nonetheless.

[mts]

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[Resolute]

5 minutes ago, mts said:

Are you coming to UK?

no, but i might have a layover there.

 

5 minutes ago, mts said:

I hope it goes well for you with the money and legal problems.

thanks, man.

[Small]

Threats eh? Sounds scary.