memories

[Endlessnight]

Hello Beth. Thank you for telling me about your own experience on Facebook. I know it must have been very hard for you too, but somehow Beth, you find the strength and courage to reach out. I admire that very much about you, and I hope I can learn from you.

I have written back to my cousins, and finding out little bits of what's been happening in the 43 years that we haven't been in touch. Sad things, but happy things too. My cousin posted a very old black and white video from when we were kids ( I hadn't known there were video cameras back then it seem like the dark ages!). On it he wrote that my brother and father were in the video, and he posted it 'For M.'. I cried so much watching it, though it's very grainy and not too clear still I recognised a few of my cousins. My brother is so small, my father appears only for a few seconds while he lifts my brother up onto the wall where all the cousins are sitting. I only found out today that I am one of those in the video. I didn't recognise myself! I thought I was a boy!

Everyone has pictures up of course which I've been looking at, but I don't know most of the people. Many are relatives by marriage of my cousins. It will take a while to sort out who is who of course.

It saddens me that I can't post pictures on my page, for my cousins to see. They keep asking me about my brother, but I haven't mentioned anything to him about finding our cousins. There are reasons I haven't done so yet, but I can't explain to my cousins what those reasons are. Again that saddens me. I can't be who I am on my page. There doesn't seem to be anywhere, except this site, where I am me. Me, with no masks, no lies, no pretending.

[IrmaJean]

That's great, M, that you wrote back. The old memories can bring up a lot of emotions. A video of little M? I'm glad you could see that.

It saddens me that I can't post pictures on my page, for my cousins to see.

Do you feel afraid to, M? Does it help to talk more about those feelings?

There doesn't seem to be anywhere, except this site, where I am me. Me, with no masks, no lies, no pretending.

The site can be a place to start. I've practiced quite a bit here with shining my light. Having supportive friends who accept me has helped give me the space and courage to try. I'm still working on this, too, M. I know there are many limitations on your self-expression there. Maybe you could try, little by little, to share more with your family on Facebook?

[LaLa]

Hi M,

I'm pleased that you shared your new experiences and feelings with us!

As others here expressed it all so nicely , I can find only one thing "left" that I can add myself:

I don't want to seem "paranoid" of something like that, but I do have some little concerns about "safety" and "privacy" on Facebook. And I can understand that you have your own reasons why you don't feel comfortable sharing your private life there, even though only with your relatives. But Facebook could be seen mostly as a means to find out people we haven't been in contact with for a long time. Once they are found, there are other, better means to communicate with them. So... how do you feel about the idea of a possible e-mail contact with them? Does it sound better to you? Would it solve some of the problems you see about communication on FB? Or is it the communication itself that poses the main problem? (Maybe I'm mistaken and only suppose that FB is key here.) If yes, then... what precisely does stop you from sharing (privately) more with them?

Why wouldn't they accept, for instance, if you wrote them that your relationship to your brother is somewhat complicated and you don't feel that it would be a good idea to talk about them to him so far? It's not "bad" to admit that some relationships are complicated, is it?

I hope you'll find soon your own way of the contact that would feel good both to you and to them . It seems that they might bring some joy to your life - the joy you merit so much...

[Endlessnight]

Mark, he wouldn't be considered a 'guardian' as guardians are only male relatives women cannot marry. Aside from that though, I cannot live in England. I have no money. I wouldn't be able to work there. I have lived here now for almost 43 years - most of my life, and really don't have a clue as to what life in the West is like, other than from films I watch. I do miss the 'freedoms' I could have there, especially at this time of year. The weather has been lovely - low seventies (which is our 'winter) and since I (and most women here) spend 98% of our time indoors this is when we most long to be outdoors. But there is nowhere to go here really unless you have a lot of money and can afford to rent a house at the beach, which most people can't. I long to just sit outside and look up at the sky feeling the cool air on my face. We don't usually have breezes here, but this time of year we do. Those are the kinds of things I miss and long for. But I've come to realise that if I did go there I would kind of be in the same position I was in when I first came to this country - I would miss my family here. The family it's taken me so long so allow to care for. I don't know that I would be able to make such a change so late in my life. It's been so hard to get to where I am now that an upheaval might send me over the edge again. I don't know that it will, but I have to think about it. It's too late for me.

I keep watching the video of us as children over and over and I want to take the little girl that was me in my arms and say I'm sorry and please forgive me, over and over. I want to hug her and kiss her and say i'm so so sorry.

[IrmaJean]

Have you imagined yourself holding and comforting your younger self? Maybe that can be a way to soothe yourself now?

I wanted to say hi.

[Endlessnight]

My brother has decided he wants to retire. He is only 50 years old, but he wants to do nothing other than stay at home. He has no money saved up and he has four children, his wife and his mother-in-law that depend on him. I should include myself I suppose. Since I heard this I have been feeling like there is a vise in my chest squeezing my heart, and each day it gets tighter. He has a job that so many people would be grateful for. He gets a housing allowance and medical care for free. But all he cares about is himself, he doesn't think ahead. What is going to happen to his family? To all of us?

[LaLa]

I understand that it has to make you feel frightened and insecure and... perhaps angry. It's a really foolish form of egoism - he thinks he's gone make something good, pleasant for himself, but doesn't see the wrong consequences. I suppose you feel also helpless, as he doesn't listen to you. But maybe you could at least try to talk to him and/or his wife about it (maybe she could have some influence on him?).

I'm sorry, I don't know what useful to say .

I can at least send you my hugs

(((M.)))

[Endlessnight]

Thank you for the hugs, Lala, they do help. I tried talking to him yesterday. He doesn't really have any plan for himself and his family for when he quits working. It's all 'me, me, me'. I pointed out to him the situation his sons were in, neither has a job, and he started getting defensive, and when he does that, he attacks me, so I gave up.

I feel so sorry for my nephews, I wish he and his wife felt the same.

[Endlessnight]

I am able to think more clearly about myself and my 'problems', and the biggest one is my 'fractured' self. There are three or four different 'me's'. I remember I said once that this forum is the only place where I can be me, but even here i'm not wholly me. There is a me that my family (think they) know, there is the me that my friends (think they) know, there is the new me that my newly found cousins in England are getting to know, and there is a fourth me, one I'm not sure about, but know is there. The four can never come together because each one is different and each one is hiding a part of her away.

Does anyone know of any therapists that work pro bono, and online? If I were ever to be 'whole' I think that's the only way it might happen. I know I can't put them together on my own.

[IrmaJean]

I understand that options where you live are seriously limited, M. I'm sorry you are struggling. It's good that you feel more self-aware. This is always a good place to start making positive changes. Is there anyone there to talk to about your struggles? There are online therapists, but I don't know if any are pro bono...

I have always found IFS therapy very interesting. Is it possible that these are 4 different aspects or parts of yourself? What happens when you give each part a voice and listen to her needs? I think it's about balance and learning to accept and take care of all of you.

Sending my care, M.

[Endlessnight]

Hello Beth. what is IFS? Yes, the four are different aspects of me. I can't show all of them at one time though. I am a different person depending on who I am talking with. I hate that, but I don't know how to make myself whole. Thank you for your kind words Beth.

[IrmaJean]

IFS stands for Internal Family Systems and it is a therapy model. Finding my way knows a lot more about it, and I've learned most of what I do know from her. It's about the different parts of ourselves, such as you've described here (there may be many more than 4, though). I think what you'd want to do is balance and take care of all of your parts, though one part helps manage all of the others. Maybe some of our other members can explain more thoroughly for you.

I hope you feel better, M.

[LaLa]

I am a different person depending on who I am talking with. I hate that, but I don't know how to make myself whole.

M., I think we all are and have to be different depending on the situation, on the people we are with. I wouldn't say that there is a need to hate it and try to avoid it - in principle. It's a rather necessary adaptation. It's useful, in several ways. But this doesn't mean that I'm trying to somehow deny your wish to "make yourself whole". I'm just trying to help you find out what it is precisely what you wish, what you need. When I'm trying to imagine it, it occurs to me that you don't need to "be exactly the same with any person you're talking with", but you need to feel OK (what does OK mean here? Well; feel fine to "the highest extent" possible for that particular situation) being any of your "yous". (Yes, Beth said it already in a better way: "balance and take care of all of your parts". But I wanted to say almost the same, just in a different way - maybe more similar perspectives could be useful.)

So I wonder what precisely it is that makes you feel bad about "having parts" and "being different with different people". Is it, for instance, a belief that you should be totally internally consistent and "rigid"? If yes, then what does this belief stems from?

And, perhaps more importantly: When you imagine that you would be "whole", as you describe it, what feelings does it bring to you? What would be good, what the best about it? --- Maybe these answers are more important than searching for the way to be "whole", maybe you could achieve the feelings you wish by different means than by somehow "melting your parts into one homogeneous entity".

What means? Well, you're right that therapy could be a catalyst if you found a good therapist. But I believe that it's not the only option. Don't forget that a therapist is "only a catalyst" of a process happening in the patient - the patient is the one that "makes the change".

Maybe reading about IFS on the web could be one of your steps to progress/success. And... we've mentioned several times some books that could be helpful and the problem was their inaccessibility for you in SA. But now, when you know some of your relatives in the UK, maybe you could ask them for a favour - maybe they could send you some books. You could pay them, of course (there are several ways to pay to somebody abroad, although not very cheap, as far as I know); it shouldn't be very expensive - the post fees are the biggest part, as on Amazon, for instance, you can buy used books even for few cents!

I'm looking forward to your answers and thoughts!

Take gentle care!

[Endlessnight]

Lala, what I meant about being a 'different' person with certain groups of people is that I am, in part, pretending to be someone I'm not - or - showing only the side of me I think that person or group will accept. To me it seems like I'm lying, and to an extent, I am. I don't mean the usual thing that people do to be pleasant, or to be liked. I have played a part for most of my life and that's what I want to stop doing, but I can't be 'me' in public. To the society I live in, the people I live among, it wouldn't be acceptable. In fact, it would be impossible. I feel fractured because I've never been able to let the real me out, and it's been going on for so long I no longer know who the real me is or if she even exists.

Being whole and unfractured to me means being at peace, finally. Knowing what it means to accept myself and have others accept me for who I am and not what others have made me be.

[IrmaJean]

Do you have any opportunity for friendships there, M? I have found that feeling safe inside of friendships has allowed me the space to be true to myself. Even blogging here on the site (about anything really) and being freely me has been very helpful. The more I have done it, the more natural and good it feels.

Any person there you feel safe sharing yourself with? I do hope you find your way to inner peace.

Take care.

[LaLa]

I'm sorry, I don't have enough time now, but I'd like to add few thoughts:

It makes perfect sense to me. I'd say that the main problem is your environment, not you.

However, I also know that blaming the environment is not a good attitude towards life and that we always have choices, no matter how bad the circumstances are. You could chose to "be yourself" and suffer because of all the expressions of intolerance from your surroundings. You could chose to leave the country and find your true self in new settings, allowing much more freedom and self-expression. You could chose to stay and behave as you've done so far, but somehow accepting the pretending and the "life with masks"; finding your personal freedom elsewhere, not in the interaction with the people around you, but inside your soul, in some new activities you could do yourself. And there are probably also some other possibilities I can not see.

Don't worry; I don't think you should chose from these options now. I know it's a long and complicated process.

I also hope that you feel friendships as helpful and pleasant...

[finding my way]

Hiya, En!

Hope it's ok to chime in, I've been away from the conversation for a while...

Dunno if this is helpful, but in IFS a person comes to realise the roles that the different parts of us play in order to maintain the person. It can really help to see that each part is doing the best they can with what they know. Gaining that perspective, looking at how your system of parts is operating, can create a space for the first time... and in that space of viewing it is quite possible to get to a place of wholeness and compassion.

The path to getting there is getting to know each part with respect... seeing that they have had a role to play in keeping you going. You may feel anger or frustration over a part, but seeing how she got there, what she feels she needs to be doing, can really help you understand her. And all the while you are engaged in this process you are strengthening the part of you that is witnessing all of this and listening. Eventually it will get easier to do, so that when a part wants to take you over in a situation, you have a space that wasn't there before... a space that allows you to observe what is happening... you may watch the part do what it always does, but you have understanding and you are not completely that part because you know there is more to you, and it is possible to calm down.

Hope you are ok today, En!

[Endlessnight]

Hi Finding, and thank you for your reply. Of course it's okay to join in at any time! Thank you for your explanation, it has helped me see my different selves in a new way. Instead of wanting to get rid of my other selves, I am going to try and respect them. They do what they have to do to keep me going, to keep me living. Without them I probably would have stayed inside of myself and died there long ago.

I feel detached from my other selves though, and have always been an observer of them. I don't know if it's better to be detached from them, or should my goal be to make them one? I do want to feel that compassion for myself that all of you feel for me. I do want that peace and calm inside myself.

Lala,

but somehow accepting the pretending and the "life with masks"; finding your personal freedom elsewhere, not in the interaction with the people around you, but inside your soul,

That is what I think I should strive for, Lala, because leaving here is not an option. I don't have the money to live anywhere else. I would be like a stranger in a strange land for the second time in my life. I barely survived the first time, I wouldn't survive a second. I hope with help, insight, from you and my other friends on here, I may one day achieve that.

Beth, I have good friends, but I can't be the 'real' me with them. There are many reasons for this.

This forum is the only place I have come closest to being 'me' on. You, and my other friends on here, are the only ones that I feel I can show sides of myself to that no one else has seen. I know you won't reject me, but accept me - as you have.

Even here though, you, among others, have reached out to me with such kindness, and I repay it by withdrawing. I have a problem with closeness and I guess I'm afraid to let someone know the real me.

Thank you always, dear friends. Hugs to everyone.

[finding my way]

It is quite common to have parts that are uncomfortable with one another. When you feel detached from a part of you, are you able to determine what part of you feels defensive, and what it is concerned about? Getting to know these dynamics can really help. A young child part may make an adult part that wants to control social impressions uncomfortable... just an example. Observing them both with understanding can lead to compassion for them both and for how tough it is for them to get their needs met if they do not understand one another.

((( hugs to you!! )))

[IrmaJean]

Beth, I have good friends, but I can't be the 'real' me with them. There are many reasons for this.

This forum is the only place I have come closest to being 'me' on. You, and my other friends on here, are the only ones that I feel I can show sides of myself to that no one else has seen. I know you won't reject me, but accept me - as you have.

Even here though, you, among others, have reached out to me with such kindness, and I repay it by withdrawing.

I'm glad you feel some level of comfort being yourself here, M. Maybe it takes more time and practice to gain confidence? I hope you will be gentle with yourself.

I have a problem with closeness and I guess I'm afraid to let someone know the real me.

You are being self-aware here and that's great. What do you think you fear? For me, I always want closeness, but I have feared the possible rejection inside of it. The better I feel about myself, though, the less power that fear has over me. It feels very freeing being me. You can do it too, M.

((((hugs))))

[LaLa]

M., it's so nice to see that the IFS perspective has already helped you, at least a bit .

I have some associations to share:

Even here though, you, among others, have reached out to me with such kindness, and I repay it by withdrawing.

In my case, I used to do this mostly because I felt at least one of these things:

- I'm not worth the kindness, it's not "fair/right" to "take it" (and even want more - in future).

- It's better to withdraw, keeping what I've already got, not coming for more, as "more" may not come and that would be a proof for me that what people want is just to give me "some amount of kindness for the start" and that is supposed to trigger my "change for better" - increase my self-esteem - and with a bigger/appropriate self-esteem, I shouldn't need/want more kindness. But I'd sometimes prefer the kindness over the high self-esteem. So I rather decide to withdraw, as then it's me who has made the decision, not the others. And also, I try to show to myself that I'm able to live even without the pleasant interactions with others, so I won't be "devastated" in case if I "come back" and "find out" that "they don't have more kindness for me anymore"... But it never worked for a long time. I needed to "come back". And, in case of my therapist (with whom I could communicate openly also about this kind of thoughts), I also "had to" tell that... I needed/wanted to experience the kindness again...

- I can't believe that this behaviour of (/treatment by) others, which is supposed to help me, will really help me. So as far as I somehow "sabotage" it myself (by withdrawal, ...), then I keep the circumstances "under the optimal level", so I know that that's why it doesn't really help me "to change myself forever". I fear that if it was optimal, it wouldn't help either - but in that case, it would bring too much despair as then I wouldn't see any other possibly effective help; I would feel as a failure - incapable of taking advantage of what others gave me.

It wasn't easy to leave all those complicated inhibiting assumptions and those ways of thinking. I guess I still have the tendency to think this way sometimes, but it's much more rare now, that's sure. I can't describe the principle of the change.

But I have some ideas which could be mentioned in this context: It's important to be just open to the good which others can bring to you, but not thinking that you're dependent on those particular people who feel so important for you now. Moreover, it's great to feel that you can give something good to them - i.e. that they are also open and can experience the interactions with you as pleasant and/or beneficial - but that doesn't represent a dependence either - you're not obliged to do your best for them. (I think it's more complicated "in person", where we have more "social obligations", but at least here, I consider this view as well applicable. Yet, not only here, but... among friends. Does it sound strange when I say "you're not obliged to do something for your friend in needs"? In my eyes, you're not, but you just do it even so, if you're capable of it in that particular situation, because it's a friend and thus you want to. But sorry, this is already quite "out of topic"...)

I have a problem with closeness and I guess I'm afraid to let someone know the real me.

Do you already know the real you? Are you so scared that you may not like her (if you new her) that you a priori suppose that others would reject her if they new her?

Or here you mean only "the you which you know very well" and you're afraid that we wouldn't accept some of your aspects which you haven't mentioned (yet)?

In any case, I can only agree with Beth about the rejection and self-esteem. Rejection is painful, but one of the benefits of a good self-esteem is that you can also manage well a rejection. "Manage well" doesn't imply, in my eyes, not being very sad for some time. But it implies not bearing "permanent damaging effets", not deducing conclusions about your worth, not fearing new realtionships because of the possibility of a new rejection. (BTW; I've lost a friend in December - I felt rejected in such an accusatory way that I decided even not to try to "vindicate myself", to explain her the distortion in her thinking about me. I cried several times during few days, then I was sad maybe for two weeks, but... it's over and I don't feel even any bitterness now (and no anger, of course) - that's what I consider as fine: I allowed myself to be upset and sad and it attenuated in time and I'm fine in the end.)

You don't need to be loved by everyone. It's natural that we chose the people we like more than others depending on our preferences. If you don't meet someone's preferences, it's not "your fault", it's not a "fault", it's just life. Do you really believe that you're "so bad" that you would loose everybody if they new you much better? ... I know; in the place where you live, you certainly are different. And many people have problems with accepting differences and allowing themselves even liking (some of) them. But despite all differences, you also do have many things in common with your friends, maybe more than you know (they may hide some of their "potentially unacceptable" traits/thoughts, too!)...

Hugs,

L.

[Endlessnight]

Lala, I think what you wrote is how I feel inside but am unable to see objectively enough to put it into words the way you have here:

In my case, I used to do this mostly because I felt at least one of these things:

- I'm not worth the kindness, it's not "fair/right" to "take it" (and even want more - in future).

- It's better to withdraw, keeping what I've already got, not coming for more, as "more" may not come and that would be a proof for me that what people want is just to give me "some amount of kindness for the start" and that is supposed to trigger my "change for better" - increase my self-esteem - and with a bigger/appropriate self-esteem, I shouldn't need/want more kindness. But I'd sometimes prefer the kindness over the high self-esteem. So I rather decide to withdraw, as then it's me who has made the decision, not the others. And also, I try to show to myself that I'm able to live even without the pleasant interactions with others, so I won't be "devastated" in case if I "come back" and "find out" that "they don't have more kindness for me anymore

I've always 'prided' myself on my ability to not care. I know that's not a word others might use, but in the past it was what I kept telling myself and I used it as a shield to prevent myself from being hurt. Of course it hasn't always worked, and I know I need to allow myself to care to get better.

- I can't believe that this behaviour of (/treatment by) others, which is supposed to help me, will really help me. So as far as I somehow "sabotage" it myself (by withdrawal, ...), then I keep the circumstances "under the optimal level", so I know that that's why it doesn't really help me "to change myself forever". I fear that if it was optimal, it wouldn't help either - but in that case, it would bring too much despair as then I wouldn't see any other possibly effective help; I would feel as a failure - incapable of taking advantage of what others gave me.

Again, you are describing me - or how i would describe myself if I were capable of it.

Moreover, it's great to feel that you can give something good to them - i.e. that they are also open and can experience the interactions with you as pleasant and/or beneficial - but that doesn't represent a dependence either - you're notobliged to do your best for them. (I think it's more complicated "in person", where we have more "social obligations", but at least here, I consider this view as well applicable. Yet, not only here, but... among friends. Does it sound strange when I say "you're not obliged to do something for your friend in needs"?

Lala, I don't think I have anything to give, and that nothing I can say or do could in any way be of help to anyone or even make them 'feel better'. So yes, I feel guilty for constantly 'taking' and not 'giving' as I don't feel I have anything worthwhile to give. Yet still I reach out and so I feel like a child constantly saying 'I want! I want!' and that makes me feel bad so I withdraw again.

Do you already know the real you? Are you so scared that you may not like her (if you new her) that you a priori suppose that others would reject her if they new her?

Or here you mean only "the you which you know very well" and you're afraid that we wouldn't accept some of your aspects which you haven't mentioned (yet)?

It's not that I'm afraid 'you' (my friends on here) wouldn't accept the real me, I trust all of you enough to know that that wouldn't happen, at least I don't think so. I don't know who the 'real me' is. I wish I did. If there is a real me inside I have surrounded her with so many lies and excuses and walls that she's been lost to me.

The aspects of me that I don't like are the parts I made to cope with the different situations as they came up during all my years here, most of which involved having to lie about certain things regarding myself. When we first came here, I was told by my father I must lie about certain things (I can't go into them in the open forum) and I went along with it because I thought I would only be for a month or so so it doesn't much matter, though it did bother me a lot because I was such an honest person back then. Now I feel like I'm trapped in that web that Shakespeare wrote about: 'Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive'. I've been caught inside that web of lies and can't get out.

I wish God had made me stupid and unfeeling, perhaps I could have lived a life of contentment at least then.

That's all I can write for now. i will answer the rest of your post another time.

[Endlessnight]

I feel broken inside lately, numb. This weight and tightness in my chest is getting worse every day. I don't want to get up in the morning I want to stay in bedr. I wish I could just go to sleep forever. I want peace.

[Luna-]

Hi M, I don't know what to say, but please know I am thinking of you and hope this feeling will go away.

[Endlessnight]

Thank you Luna, it's nice to hear from you again.

I should be happy, I am going to Dubai with my English friend and another friend on Thursday. We are going for four days, but I'm not happy. I'm stressing out about my brother leaving work - next month is his last, about the fact that I had to lie in order to go. I told my brother that the school I work at was sending me and two other teachers to a seminar there. Then I had to hide the fact that I was going from the rest of the family, but now everyone is going to know and I know how they will talk and not be happy that I went without a 'mahram' - male guardian. When my friend told me she was going, she asked me to go with her and I said I couldn't. She kept pressing me to go but I told her that if I went my brother and all the family would say that I have too much money, and that I shouldn't go with a mahram anyway. My friend persuaded our other friend to go also, and they both persuaded me to say yes. We got a good deal on the hotel and flight so it's not costing too much, but now I wish I hadn't already paid. I don't want to go any more. I'm fed up with the lies and with everything.

I'm just so tired. Tired of fighting, of existing, of everything. I want it all to end.