figuring things out

[randomperson]

Thank you for your advice. I am going to tell you my thought patterns and maybe you can help me understand where I am making my mistakes.

I did go down the thought path you speak of, especially thought deeply about things you said in the past. Logically right now I could not figure out a way to make it work. You know I struggle attracting women, and even finding single women.

Say I do find someone go out on a few dates things go well for both of us. Over time my mothers needs and hers would conflict more and more I am almost sure of it. I'm sure your saying take charge of my own life then but you don't know my situation that isn't a choice I have..

I wish it was. So I was stuck in this loop and it was driving me nuts!

All I could think about is being alone until my mother passed away then being stuck in a house that is breaking down and piled to the ceiling with junk with tons of animals which I don't want to see die but I don't want to keep myself.

Those thoughts along with missing the woman I speak of is what drove me to these forums.

My mother is very sweet, but like many of us she struggles with emotional problems. She claims the nerve med she takes is the cure all, but the the problems are still there and she refuses to seek any more help. Claims she has heard everything they have to say.

Point in case on all this, when I talked to her about things she normally starts going into a panic attack and ends up saying just give me a chance to die, starts talking about the tumor in her neck.. which I have no clue about (how serious it really is) because she refuses to go to the Dr.

How do you respond when someone says something like that? I try to be there for her ease her fears that I will just leave her, but at some point I just give up. And that is if I find someone which would be a miracle on its own lol. I did try online dating.. did not go well.

The woman I talk about has been writing lately about twice a week saying the sweetest things.

She has said several times how much I mean to her and that she loves me.. maybe it is just words but I have know her and her family for sometime now and I believe she means what she says.

She has emotional issues like I do.. I really think it is these issues is one of the main things keeping us apart. Maybe it is just me wanting to believe.. I don't really trust my own thoughts anymore. Which is another huge problem lol.

One thing I can do is start to work on being less submissive, as you say find my inner fire.. but I have been trying in my situation I struggle with it. Not sure even where to begin, what to do.

So what I described in past messages was a third choice. To not give up.

To try to find my own path through the mess of a life I have. Not to totally scrap it tearing everything up in its wake, but realizing I can't totally go around it either.

I am intently listening to what you are saying.. very much so. Just trying to figure out how to do things you suggest in my situation. I would like to hear any advice you have. Suggestions on how to talk to people is very much needed in fact. I really don't want to do anything to lose or hurt anyone I care for right now especially around Christmas.

[nathan]

My advice is simply to be around as many women as possible. If you havn't had sex before, which I think that you havn't, you must have some kind of resentment and or anxiety about women. So, do whatever you can do be around women to learn that that resentment or anxiety is false.

Tease them playfully.

point out their body language.

Try not to talk about yourself.

If they ask about you, like what you do for a living, lie. not becuase you are a liar, but becuase you are there to have fun, tell you engineer space crafts for nasa. ok thats kinda dumb, but you get the point.

forget about the consequences

make it so that YOU are getting the fun out being around them (and this will make them have fun around you)

I'm sure you have heard this stuff before...

[randomperson]

I have had people say that before, just I never know where to go to meet people. I'm not into bars or things like that nor do I feel at ease talking to random people. Most look at you like your crazy if you just start up a conversation lol.

Not being with a woman yet is a mix of things. Part is my choice because of my religion. Some of it is a bit of unease and distrust of women in general from bad past experiences. Some of it is just the fact I'm not around a lot of single women.

Things could have been much different for me. In high school I was often approached by women. But I was too messed up from the abuse back then..

I thought everyone hated me, and I didn't understand flirting.. in fact I thought they were teasing me and making fun of me of all things. Took me years to learn to socialize with anyone even as friends. I was isolated most of my childhood minus scouts and school. Most of the social skills I know now I learned on my own through hard work after I was already grown by observing, studying, and basic trial and error just like you said.

[nathan]

People may look like they think you are crazy, but the will almost never get angry at you for doing it. And even if they do, whatever.

For the most part most people don't have the balls to start conversations with strangers. People look at you like you are crazy becuase they are shocked at just how comfortable and normal it is to talk to the person who is sitting RIGHT NEXT TO YOU, or RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU.

what's really crazy is how people can spend so much effort avoiding eye contact and any kind of communication with a human being right in front of them.

Now I have always suffered anxiety myself, so don't get me wrong, I am well aware of the potential awkwardness or fear. But as soon a syou start doing it, you realize how similar everyone is, how there is nothing to be worried about.

Just start talkng to women, it is the only way out. They are everywhere. They are waiting at the bus stop, at the grocery store, w/e.

Don't act like you are introducing yourself to them, just say something are point out something that is happening in the immediate moment or surrounding becuase the chances are, they are thinking about the same thing. It is an immediate connection.

[randomperson]

Thank you very helpful, great advice. Right now I am just taking all of this in.

Doing a lot of thinking and reflecting. Your right I do need to try something different. I realized from personal experience I need to be ready mentally as well.

Last time I tried a little of everything but was still tore up from my break up, from people I care for getting cancer.. I wasn't ready on many levels and was hurt by women a lot during the short time I was trying. It threw me into a huge depression.

So I will continue to try to learn from you and others on here, prep myself.

See if I can work things out with the woman I am still in love with while I am still learning and healing, and if I can't I will give what you say a shot.

There is a cute neighbor I had a conversation with around Christmas she seemed very sweet, if I can figure out how.. I wouldn't mind making friends with and eventually asking her out.

One of the big problems around my area though it seems women don't stay single long lol.

[nathan]

if they cute they are never single man, they always have someone if they want to.

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Random,

I am wondering if your mother is manipulating you? I am not implying that she is not sick. However, is it possible that she is using her sickness to hold you close to her, not let you go by dramatizing that she is dying? Does she fear letting you go? It seems to me that you need your freedom and the chance to live your own life.

If your job is threatened are you looking for new work? From what I read there are more job openings now?

Allan

[randomperson]

Allan I have thought the same thoughts. Then felt guilty thinking it lol.

It is hard to say for sure.. as I said she refuses to go to the Dr so I do not know how serious it is. And yes that is the problem.. I feel like I never had my own life. Always held back because of one thing or another. Feels like I have wasted so much of my life and have little choice but to waste another huge chunk. I worry I am going to be the age where most people have grandchildren before I even start experiencing life for myself. Why I keep using the words trapped.

But she is very very sick.. I do know that.

Anytime I try to compromise, like ask if I can even go on a short vacation if I have someone watch over her she refuses to listen often goes into a panic attack, and we usually end up in a big fight.

This has been my life with everything.. it is why I came so close to giving up.

It is why I don't try as hard anymore.. don't care as much anymore.

The pain starts to become so common it dulls your senses. You accept it as normal and move through the motions of life.

The woman I speak of sparked hope in me once.. and I kinda resent her for that.

It showed me what my life could have been then was taken away in the blink of an eye.

It nearly drove me nuts. I even choke up just thinking about it.

I deeply hate what others have done to me. I have a deep bitterness and anger inside me I hide most of the time. I have been picked on, held back, abused, and rejected all my life. A drunk killed off almost my entire family!!!!!!!!!!

My faith gives me the only hope I have.. holds my rage at bay. Most of the time I even forget it is there. Just thinking about this brings it back a little.

But a long answer to your question yes she does fear letting me go, and it is affecting the situation always has. It is likely because of the car wreck and the abuse she has suffered all of her life.

I am learning to accept people and relationships a fluid. Coming and going in and out. To accept people in be blessed by the time they are around you, but don't hold on tight enough to where it hurts when they go. That philosophy is something that came from recovering from the break up and recent deaths I have been through and it has helped. I find myself becoming very neutral and not caring for anything, and I am glad. I don't hurt like I did. The only bad side effect is I don't dream, don't take pride in things or really try anymore. Life feels like a prison sentence to me.. just waiting for the time to tick by.

[randomperson]

Funny this conversation brought back a memory. I have went through many of the same processes myself. I took a psych 101 class in college and was very good at it I would often study it long after i finished the class because I felt it helped me better understand myself and others.. which was something I always struggled at.

I was reading a recently published article in the library. The summary didn't add up to what the research was saying. I asked someone I knew that was majoring in psychology to check it out. He insisted that summaries were never wrong.. acted like I was dumb. Actually acted quite cocky like he was much smarter than me, like I was a peon. He didn't used to be like that either I used to help in the basic class I took.

Years later I heard an interview with one of the people that did reports like that.. in it he revealed because of being rushed to put as many out as possible often they would skim the articles and fudge the summaries best they could and admitted sometimes they were way off. I felt a little justified after hearing that.

I do a lot of self growth and improvement, have for years.. you would be surprised how far I have came.

I did ask this same question long ago is my mother holding me back from personal growth and why, what can I do to change the situation?

She is and it is because of her own emotional problems to a large extent.

So the choices were, leave, try to help her grow, or try to change myself.

I can't leave because she can barley get around now. And she refused to get help says she has been helped as much as possible and that she is on medication to help with her mind.

She might indeed be hyping her problems to control me but she still has enough medical problems where she can't be by herself. So that leaves the question, to what extent can I have my own life?

I am slowly working on improving that. Often though if I step over her comfort level she either starts crying or gets upset. And she doesn't forget or let it go for a long long time. I have to give in or live with her being in a constant state of unrest.

As for self improvement. That I am trying.. but I have come to a dead end.

Like Nathan says I really need to experience being in a relationship with someone that loves me.. having my own life to keep growing. I need good things to happen just a few times.. I have had enough bad.

But there in lies the problem that is something I can't predict, can't control, or can't change. So I have been trying to focus on the tiny things. The small self growth changes I can make in the situation I am in while at the same to re look at my current situation see if there are things I am missing.. ways around all of this. anything.. anything at all to give me any hope of having my own life even a fraction of it.

One thing I have be rolling over in my mind a lot is indeed putting the woman I care so much on hold. Just think of her as a friend and try dating again, even if it means losing her.. because it doesn't seem she is mine to lose right now anyway.

Though honestly I hated it last time I tried dating.. I felt miserable and it hurt my self esteem even more.

[randomperson]

Yesterday it all kinda clicked what I need to do.

I had a friend that pointed out something that people on this site was saying.

No matter how hard I need to take control of my life or I will keep losing what matters in it. He said like Nathan and Allan I need to get out of my mother's control. I told him like I mentioned on here about her health. He said something that changed my way of thinking. She can and should work with me instead of trying to keep holding our lives back. That regardless I need to do something or I will be in my 40s-50s still in the same situation.. and starting to become a shut-in like her. (Secretly my biggest fear!)

It really confused me for a bit.. all the conflicting thoughts.. then I realized it isn't wrong for me to want to have a real life. That my mother shouldn't be trying to control me to the point where I can't have a real relationship... can't even have a vacation.

So I decided things that should fix both of my problems with the two people I care most for in my life right now. Be it mistakes or not I know in my heart I need answers I can't keep going on like this. I do need to take control. For once I need to be in charge of my own future.

First step I asked my girl how she would feel if I moved to to be with her.

I did it this morning. This will show how she really feels.. if it was just a game or if there is real feelings for me. If she keeps ignoring me, or reacts bad then it is over for good.. I am moving on. It will either prove she is not mature enough to handle a serious relationship are was using me all along.

If on the other hand she gets excited. There is hope And I will start thinking about what is needed to eventually move. It will be tough because my mother will be against it, but I can and need to make it happen. I don't plan to abandon my mother either. I have plans.. one thing I am good with.. but I won't go into any of it.. no point until I hear back .. if I hear back.

Second step if she doesn't write back..ie doesn't care. I plan to start trying to live life and not worry my mother with anything until the time comes. Start getting out talking to random women like suggested.

The big plan is to take control of my life again! I felt trapped because I felt I had no power over my own life. Yesterday I realized I do not have to let this happen. I am tired of being used and no one thinking or caring how I feel about things. If you prick me do I not bleed?

It is a new way of thinking.. honestly I am nervous about it.. and even feeling a bit guilty. My mother is sick.. what ifs keep running through my mind. But the biggest what ifs lie in what she has and is doing to me. Also I asked her if she was happy last night.. she gave a partial no. The point is if she is already unhappy... why suffer myself and live in her world when I can try to bring her out with me into a better reality for both of us.

I don't like the path I am on. If I don't change.. I just don't want to think about it...

I'm am a bit scared though... I don't know how to do any of this.. she is very strong willed and doesn't like change.

She can and will make it difficult.. and I worry like she says it might effect her health.

PS~ this is a big step for me. I would really appreciate any feedback advice. I feel very uneasy about all of this.

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

I haven't read the full story, but I know that it is a good decision to do those things for yourself.

I can see how your mother might make it difficult for you, but I think for that reason it's important you try to stay informed about her "actual" health in contrast to what she thinks her health is like or what she thinks she needs help for, because in my experience there is a huge difference.

What you say about nobody caring how you think or feel about it, reminds me a bit of me really. And it makes it more important that you care about how you feel and you have every right to have your own life and try to be happy and to make changes that allow that.

I enjoyed reading your post, because it seems like such a big step forwards.

[randomperson]

Thank you. I want to take her to the Dr but she refuses to go. Maybe I should call him.. not sure about that.

My girl did write back. Hoping it would be more clear cut one way or another, of course everything has to be complicated lol. She said I should stay where I am for my mother sake. That she needs me. However she still is acting like we are dating. She updated me on the custody looks like he will get her daughter every other weekend but the custody hearing was rescheduled.

That is what makes all of this so tough they are the two people that mean the most to me in the world right now.

I thought it would be simple. Either no response from her, or some excuse why I couldn't be with her. Well it was an excuse.. however one that makes sense and doesn't help me sort things out. The one thing she could say to make me doubt what I am thinking but doesn't give me any resolution.. and she happens to say it lol.

It seems like things are being put in place to force me to make tough decisions that could either save or ruin my life as I know it.. or be patient and wait an untold amount of time for an unknown future.

Frustrating I thought I finally had a real answer to this mess lol.

But surprising I am not feeling down about any of this. I mean I have a very attractive young woman in another state that might be teasing me or might truly love me... I def had had worse things happen to me

I need to think about this more regardless..

[malign]

Random, have you thought about separating the two decisions, moving out and moving to be with a girl? Personally, I heartily advise people to spend some time living on their own, before they try to live with someone else. A person learns a lot about themselves, living alone. Even if you're dating someone, just knowing that you can live alone helps make better relationship decisions. Lots of people get stuck in relationships or even marriage, because they've never had the experience of being alone.

Plus, making your future conditional on hers gives away all the power that you're just now learning that you have ... Why not use it for a while?

You can't make another person happy, whether it's your mother or your girl or anyone else. The only person you can make happy is yourself.

[randomperson]

Thank you malign this way of thinking is new to me.

I was not planning on moving in with her just moving close to her.. at least in the same city lol. I am a 32 year old shy virgin moving in with someone that quick would not have been a good thing haha. But the point is mute now anyway she said she wanted me to stay where I am.

Thinking this way feels un normal to me and contradicts most of my normal thinking and even many things that normally feel right for me to do.

I think I am on the right path.. I just need to think things through.. all of this is very complicated. I want to do things right. I don't want to lose either of them from my life if at all possible.

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

Ah, yes. I basically agree with malign.

But it's also clear you didn't actually get an answer. I think you could rephrase the question, maybe indicating why this question is important for you, and ask again? I'm aware that she might have been indicating that the custody is her top priority, but it should still be possible to ask what this relationship means to her, I guess. :confused:

PS did she tell you what she wants, because I though she just told you what you should do, avoiding an answer to the actual question.

[randomperson]

I think I have found the peace I have been looking so hard for.

Part of it came from opening up my mind to new thoughts.

Strange how it can happen during the most stressful times.

Last night my mother discovered another tumor in her neck.

Throughout my life through the abuse and all the other hard times my mother has almost died 4 times. She does use it as a control tool yes.. but she does have very bad health. Each time she survived it has been a miracle. Literal miracle. I had forgot.. not sure how.. but all the stress I had forgot. That is why I never broke free and have always gave in. Always afraid of being alone, losing my family.. always isolated from so much.. my life has not been fun.

Last night I dreamed she passed away. When I awoke everything became clear. I know what I have to do and I have a peace about it.

My real fear is being alone.. I realized that from my dream.

Everyone says oh you have me.. but it is not the same as family.. and most of the time it is just words. My mother is the last of my family.

I need to take this time to be with her and consider it a blessing she is still with me, while she is still with me. I kid myself to think she will still be with me 15- 20 years from now.. and that hurts me to think that

I do need to find some way to get her to see the Dr though.

As for my love. She wrote last night again asking for help, well in a way she said "what should I do", but she knows I always pull her out of the fire.

Interesting how things work out. I wrote her asking the one question that will answer everything. (Basically what SomethingOrOther suggested) The way things happened it will be hard for her to avoid the question this time especially because she needs me. We will see how she responds but I am at peace either way now.

In my faith Jesus was often asked difficult questions with 2 choices both with negative consequences. He would always find a third option and the true answer to the question.

It is like I finally see the third option.. the real answers to these questions that have been haunting me.

[randomperson]

So I did write what I said I would. Right after her sister wrote back said I should just be patient and that she was afraid that I am pushing her too hard too fast and would scare her away by mistake. At the time I knew that might happen but for some reason that message made me start caring.. start doubting myself and that idea. I backslide back to how I was confused and in a mess emotionally.

I wrote back and tried to retract lol.

Ah maybe I will get them so upset at me by mistake I will have to move on

What normally happens haha.

I made good progress.. can't believe I backslid so much so quick just because of one message. Ah.. oh well as I said baby steps!! Still thinking positive. Making slow progress.

[Athena]

Hi Random,

This is the first time I've read this thread I think. Have you made a decision about your ex-girlfriend or are you still in limbo-land? If she's still going through divorce and custody issues and all that, it would explain her erratic actions. Sounds like she does love you, but in terms of long term spouse material, it seems she thinks of you as a back-up plan.

From your posts in other threads, it sounds like you are ready to move on. If you wrote down your ideal "match", I get a feeling it would not point to your ex-G. Loneliness sucks, but it is much simpler to be lonely and get out of that situation, than to be with somebody who's not right for you then have to get out of that situation.

Just my observations.

[randomperson]

Yeah your right.. just a few days ago in fact.

I scared her and her sister off partly on purpose partly not.

I think you are right I do believe she has love for me.. but I just don't think she is serious or will be for many years. I am a little embarrassed to say but she is much younger than me. She is still learning who she is and what she wants out of life out of a relationship.

It was the last few messages that kinda did it for me.

She was flirting with me again.. even acting like there was something special between us, but she still was staying distant. Didn't want to even talk on the phone. She promised a Christmas gift.. never came of course.

The final thing for me was something simple and on its own not bad.

She simply told how custody was going to end up. He was going to get their daughter every other weekend.. and she said that will be good for her because she is staying busy with college and work. I asked her what she would think if I moved to be with her within the hour she wrote to stay where I am for my mother. All of which means no go to a serious relationship as long as nothing changes, and it didn't seem to effect her any.

Everything she said was truthful but it is how she said it combined with everything else. She just isn't into me as a serious relationship. Too many signs point to that fact. She would just end up breaking my heart again if I kept hanging on. Sad that we love each other but can't make it work. I don't know 100% but I do think I scared them both off. But that is ok. I left on good terms. And I do know in my heart we loved each other. Somehow as sad as that is it gives me a little peace as well.

Watch me say all this then a month later be back doubting myself back in limbo land lol.

But I think it is over for good this time.

I can't believe it in the end I was the one to break it off.. would have never saw that in a million years..

[Athena]

Maybe you will have a fresh perspective going out with somebody new. Something to compare it to at least.

[randomperson]

Now the trick is going out with someone new

After our real break up about a year ago I was broken still crushed and tried online dating while in this crushed state.. it was not pretty lol.

Actually drove me back to her begging her just to talk to me again.

I think Mark is right there is either a connection or not one.

I had a connection with my ex but not the other few women I dated and it has warped my perspective on things. But I have been on about 10 dates, 95% off of those crummy dating sites so I realize it is unfair to judge.

[randomperson]

Thanks to everyone for all the advice. Thought I would post in here rather than blab about me in so many threads. I do like the idea of making more friends and going from there it really fits who I am and like Athena said will keep me from getting lonely.

A good chunk of this is my fault and I realize it. I don't trust people. I feel people will betray me over time until I know them for years and they prove they won't. Relationships or potential relationships even more.

It only feeds into my over worrying.

Late last night mom posted something on my FB wall jabbing at my ex without mentioning her. She knows her sister is still on my FL. I deleted it but I wonder if she understands that only hurts things.

Now I find myself halfway regretting scaring my ex off. I know it is something that needed to be done.. but this is how I am. I start to wonder if it was me that caused her to be so defensive. If it is my over worrying. If I was different if things could have worked, if I was patient like her sister said. Regardless it would have been tough since neither of us could move to be with each other.

What is done is done. I need to move forward. Today is just a little harder than yesterday. So tempted to write.. but I know I shouldn't. I won't.

As much pain as she has caused I shouldn't still miss her but I do. Not as much as I did and I realize now she is wrong for me in many ways but it still makes it tough. I just wish I could control my thoughts more.

[randomperson]

I am feeling a bit panicky is that a word?

Feel nervous for some reason and my anxiety is up, thoughts are muddled.

From time to time I get this way.. usually that is when I get myself into trouble say dumb things and so on. Not sure how to stop it.

[Athena]

I am feeling a bit panicky is that a word?

Feel nervous for some reason and my anxiety is up, thoughts are muddled.

From time to time I get this way.. usually that is when I get myself into trouble say dumb things and so on. Not sure how to stop it.

I wonder if that's just normal. I felt panicked the other day - similar to how you describe - thoughts muddled, couldn't stop it, didn't know where it came from, etc. Then I realized later I hadn't slept well for two nights, hadn't been eating much, was spending too much time on the computer, was probably suffering from the antianxiety side of the Cipralex that I already knew I was having some withdrawal symptoms over having stopped, and was having a problem digesting the red meat I'd eaten for three days straight, when I usually never eat red meat. So, having given myself a reasonable explanation, I stopped "panicking about my panicking" and it gradually went away. Maybe we should just accept and observe, and not overthink things.

Having said that, it appears that I may have just "overthunk" again:D. Anyway, at least I feel better. How are you feeling now Random?

[58corvette]

Just Wanted to say Hi to both of you. Sorry to butt in.

Relationship Issues. You know I guess that along with Anxiety & Panic Attacks its at least nice knowing again We Are Not Alone in thought & feelings that leave us feeling just that; Alone & Scared.

I always enjoy both of you, your replys & post. Thanx Again!!!

Sincerely; Jim