shame

[Hermitt]

And that pain is still there. It's part of me. I grew up with it. I feel damaged but I can't take the blame for what adults did to me when I was little. THEY were the abusers. IF there was an advocate for me back then a few people would have done some jail time but there was no one. There really was no sense of "Family". It was just a bunch of dysfuntional people doing whatever the hell they wanted and getting away with it.

My Dad and a family friend DID a few times TRY to stop some things but they just got beat up. My mother was a beast. It was total chaos.

As I've said before, maybe not in this thread, some people should NEVER have children. :mad:

[notmary]

I appreciate all of the support and kindness that I have been offerred on this thread. I have been reading and rereading the many posts. Say again, I cognitively get it. I am trying to do what you suggested and I "buy it" for a few minutes but then the other voice wins out and shoots me down. I am very aware of how children are victimized. I am a teacher and I wouild never dream of blaming one of my students who has been abused. I have dealt with this issue more times that I wish (aeven one time would be more than I wish)and the rage I feel towards the abuser is frightening. The frustration and sorrow I feel for the child is heartbreaking. I KNOW all of this but when it comes to me I can't allow myself the compassion. I know that this is my issue and that I am the only one who can change this about me. I just freeze and won't do it. If my story was told to me about someone else, I would be devestated for the little girl. Why can't I feel that compassion for me? Why can't I turn that anger on HIM. I don't know and I am sorry.

[finding my way]

You need more time, Mary. I'm sorry this is sooo very hard

[Symora]

You are not alone in that struggle Notmary. I find that I too have a disconnect between how I feel about myself intellectually, and how I speak to myself internally. My inner language come straight out of my father's mouth, and it is not kind.... In French we have an expression that says something like "you become your own hangman"... I feel I picked up where he left off and the neuropathways are well worn I was reading Hermitt on another thread and she appeared so lucid with regards to where responsibility lies for things that happened in her past, and that she was not taking on their misdeeds. I admire that.

I too think it is a question of time before you truly process everthing and come to terms with what you have learned...

Edited April 14, 2010 by Symora

[Say Again]

Please do not be discouraged Notmary, This is the method I used (in part) to get out from underneath a stubborn self blame / self hate pattern I suffered and I did not fully understand this piece until I read your post today.

I too had the ability to feel deep compassion for those victimized by abuse and yet had none for myself. If I were at this very moment to mentally pluck myself out of one of the scenes from my childhood and envision my Granddaughter in it ~ I cannot even allow myself to stay with it a second because of the pain. I have zero feelings when I am that child. Regardless of the fact that this contrast existed (exists) ~ it never was of ANY help to me until I SPECIFICALLY set out to connect and compare this information.

By bringing the contrast into your awareness ~ you are giving yourself valuable clarity into your thinking that can challenge the way you see yourself. It creates a tension that takes away some of the credibility from that emotional perspective that has had free rein with this for most of your life. Once you reach that level of thinking ~ where you feel something such as shame and instead of just believing it must be deserved ~ you now question if it is even based in logic ~ you are in a new place and this is a place where you can make great change in your life.

I cannot thank you enough for this because I know that this piece is a key to how I got from where I was to where I am. This is reminding me of how important it is and how I can actively use it for any areas that I find I am being too hard in how I view myself. I am bad about tracking time but it has been months ~ maybe a year... ~ since I have curled up on the floor and cried until I could not anymore and many other behaviors that were patterns of how I tried to cope. I use to sit at my computer and type as if it was a letter to myself – “You are a worthless stupid f***ing b**ch” and on and on and it was the only relief from the pain I could find. I had page after page of this and I do not know how in the world I survived it. Why? It was the shame Notmary.

Something I just recently posted on another thread brought back to mind this lack of feeling I have for the pain I am certain I must have felt as a child. What you have helped me to put to rest and to so clearly understand is that I do not have to feel that pain again in order to create and have compassion for myself right now. What is important is that I accept that the evidence is telling me that I am seeing it distorted. I applaud you for taking any suggestions that offer a chance of bringing you toward the life you deserve. Most all of us here know how difficult it is to grab hold of hope from the darkness of despair. Never let go because we are all counting on you.

[Hermitt]

I think an abuser uses guilt to justify the abused child before, during and after the actual abuse so it's cemented to it. That's why we can't reason it away. There is always a misguided justification in there with all the memories.

Edited April 17, 2010 by Hermitt

[notmary]

Here I go again. I have not posted for a while as I try to focus on breathing and moving forward. I thought that I was making progress in putting together "me" But the voice is back, the shame is back the fear is back and the realization that I will never be free or whole. he destroyed me -or the me that I want to be- and left this dead worthless shell. why didn't he kill my body instead of just my spirit.

[Symora]

Hi Notmary, I've been thinking of you in the last few days, I noticed you had not posted in awhile...

You have just had some days of <making progress >, that is better than it was a while back. It will ease with time - they did not come up with <time heals all wounds> based on nothing I tell myself that everyday recently, because like you I feel that my spirit is broken and I don't know how to put the pieces back together...

We have both lived a few years (well I know I have ) and this is not the first difficult obstacle we have had to face, right? If you look back do you see how some things you lived took years to work themselves out? I know that for me some things too 5 years, 10 years to work through. It was challenging, painful, confusing, but I got through it and I grew and learned because of it. Some days I feel there is no more life ahead, that the losses are more than I can bear. Then other days I see the colour in the world for awhile and it helps me to breathe.

I find my kids remind me that there is life beyond what goes on inside of me, that there is good, and hope, and joy in this world. Who does that for you Notmary?

[notmary]

Symora,

thank you for your response. I am feeling alone. I am alone with this. I do not feel the hope or see the positive that you see as i don't feel that this is an obstacle Instead it is who i am and therefore i can't get over it or move beyond it. instead i have to somehow accept the truths about me and about what happened and why it happened to me

as far as what gives me joy or hope. i don't know if anything does the best i feel right now is peace and i guess i feel that when i watch the water or when i spend a quiet moment with one of my children. sometimes i get a moment when i am with my husband or friends. mostly i feel knotted up and unsure of me

[Symora]

I do understand what you are saying Notmary. I lived a rape as a teenager and I know how a physical betrayal sticks to the skin as well as the psyche.... I remember what that aloneness is, but with time I have come to see him as the abuser that he was, even when I am alone, and I don't feel ashame about it anymore. You can bring consciousness to this Notmary and elevate it beyond the abasement he made you feel ...

[Hermitt]

Symora,

thank you for your response. I am feeling alone. I am alone with this. I do not feel the hope or see the positive that you see as i don't feel that this is an obstacle Instead it is who i am and therefore i can't get over it or move beyond it. instead i have to somehow accept the truths about me and about what happened and why it happened to me

as far as what gives me joy or hope. i don't know if anything does the best i feel right now is peace and i guess i feel that when i watch the water or when i spend a quiet moment with one of my children. sometimes i get a moment when i am with my husband or friends. mostly i feel knotted up and unsure of me

See, right there. You have a husband and friends. Some of of don't even have that. So there must be part of you that is functioning in some normal capacity. Some of us are so crippled mentally and emotionially those things aren't possible. You are way better off than I am, that's for sure. I can't even get or maintain any kind of human relationship.

[finding my way]

Oh Hermitt:o, mary:o, everyone, this place in us is so sorrowful. It really hurts. What I have learned though, is to think of it as a loss of development that happened because of traumatic circumstances. That loss and that trauma are very real.

It is NOT the end of our story though.

Just look at any child. They are constantly moving and changing, growing, developing. The same is true of our inner child if we let her story start up again. We can GROW a new way, we really can. No, it does not feel ok right now, but we can get to that place of being ok by letting go of some things and by growing towards a more positive place. Please do not determine yourself narrowly... let more air in, even just a little....

Edited April 30, 2010 by finding my way

[notmary]

I don't want it to be the end of my story. Right now it is just an unknown story...one that I didn't know was a part of me.

I know that I have many things in my life to be grateful for, but right now the disconnect in me is overwhelming. I don't want to be a whiner, sorry if it is coming across that way.

[Symora]

I don't consider it whinning. I see it as a pain that needs to be voiced, externalized, so that it does not suffocate you. I think that is a good healing strategy...

[Say Again]

Hi Notmary,

I too have been thinking about you and it is good to find you back on here with us. Can you share a little about what this was like for you (if you care to):

I thought that I was making progress in putting together "me"

Say Again

[Say Again]

Also this part Notmary, if you care to give more detail to these thoughts.

i don't feel that this is an obstacle Instead it is who i am and therefore i can't get over it or move beyond it. instead i have to somehow accept the truths about me and about what happened and why it happened to me

Just skip over my posts if you are not up to it ~ I am not going to take it to mean anything negative if you do.

Say Again

[finding my way]

And we are standing with you as she tells her story. Is there more she needs to say? Were there needs denied before the trauma happened, that made her more vulnerable? It was not her fault the family structure left her on the outside of protection and care and being valued. None of that should have happened. We are offering her protection and care and value now though, and a family of concerned friends that know something of what this all feels like. Here she can say what she needs to say; we are right with her as she steps into today with her needs and her potential for a new chapter to grow into... I know it is tough for you to hear her story. You feel such shame. That's why we are here with you. It takes quite a bit of courage and we want you to feel our support. We value both parts of you in this.

[notmary]

I am struggling right now to put together a cohesive response that is worthy of the care that you have shown to me. First off, Ipart of me is fighting this because it feels unsafe and scary... I, the adult am fighting against this child inside of me because I am terribly afraid of her. She is terrifying to me because she is so hurt and vulnerable and her thinking is so warped and angry. I don't want to let that child out because I don't want her to become a part of me.

Maybe I don't need to integrate these two "beings" I am hoping that the adult me can achieve a state where the dirt and shame of what happened to me can stay buried with that child inside of me and not matter to me. I don't want to run from her, I just want to "kill" her so that she doesn't matter. I don't think that I can embrace her and heal her because I am too afraid. When I try to be with her, I become panicky, I have trouble breathing, I want to hurt myself so badly, and I find myself doing self-destructing things.

[finding my way]

Yes, thinking can become very "warped and angry" in the face of utter vulnerability and hurt.... this is SO true. NO ONE wants to be powerless, not an adult, not a child. It is terrorizing. In time, perhaps a little compassion can seep into your thoughts, mary. For now, know that you are safe to explore "warped and angry" with us, because we've felt it too.

[Say Again]

I would like to offer a suggestion Notmary. It seems you have found some level of comfort in expressing the thoughts and pain with those of us on this board ~ you must know how much we care about you. It sounds too frightening for you to go deeper into some of the areas that are causing you so much pain and it might be important you only do such work with your therapist at your side. Would it be possible for you to print out and give your therapist some of the posts from this site that would give description of what you are experiencing?

This is a bad idea if it would change the way you feel about writing on here. It would mean that the therapist could easily find these posts. So I guess it would depend on your relationship with the therapist and on if you feel it would benefit you and your therapist by giving more insight into your pain.

I think of you often and do hope that you keep posting.

Say Again

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Notmary,

You need to find a way to embrace the child in you and give her love and reassurance. I do not understand why you are terrified of her? Can you explain?

Allan:)

[notmary]

I appreciate the thoughtful and caring comments that have been posted here. I do feel supported and cared for, but I always post with that fear that someone will respond with a get over it, move on, or your feelings are not valid. I am thinking about what you said Say again about showing this to my therapist. I can see that it might be valuable and provide her with a deeper understanding of what is going on. I dno't know if I can. I am afraid that if she read it and saw how fucked up I am that she would be done with me. I often have difficulty at times even speaking when I am with her because i am so sure that she will end our working together. She has never done anything to validate this... it is just me and my messed up way of relating to people... always from the fear that they will leave me behind. I know where these feelings come from~ death of my dad when I was little, severe illness of my mom a year later that left us without support...then the lovely "splitting up" of us kids done by the relatives and no one wanted me because I had fallen apart after losing my dad. I was the weak one. When we finally were back together with my mom then the fun began with the l abuse by the man supposed to be caring for us. Long explanation of why I will have to think long and hard before I show this to my therapist. Anyway, I am more grateful than I can ever say that this is here and that I have your support

Alan I am thinking of how to respond to your question.

[IrmaJean]

I think the very fact that you feel uncomfortable with showing this to your therapist, Mary, is the exact reason why you should show it to her. As I have very recently learned, there is much to be learned from within the confines of our discomfort. These are places to explore so that we may eventually be released from the core of our pain, then being free enough to discover new and more accurate truths. It offers an opportunity for emotional growth and healing. I understand that it will be difficult and frightening confronting your fears and concerns with your therapist. Maybe you could ease into this by discussing your concerns with her first? You deserve to be heard and accepted. Whatever you decide to do, your feelings belong to you and they are always valid. Good luck, Mary. I hope that you find serenity with this.

[David O]

Good morning everyone,

Speaking from the other side, as a clinician, my first thoughts are that a client who is open, honest and willing to share of their deepest "secrets" is the client I long to work with, no matter the issue--- and I think I've heard just about everything by now, after 35 years in the field. Conversely, a client who withholds, one who can't seem to be open and whose life issue is really in the shadows, is much less appealing b/c you never really know what you have before you or whether the issue is really the issue. In the end, therapeutic alliance and trust are sacrificed and thereby, so is the client's capacity for true healing, which prolongs the pain (very unnecessary) and sends us repeatedly down various paths but not the one that leads home, for it is guarded by the shadows of fear and anxiety, which, after all, are little more than shadows or wisps of air at best.

Over time I've discovered that too often, both problems and solutions are contained within the root and/or the branches, as is the case here. For you, in the root is your deepest secret and pain: in the branches are your manufactured fears of being discovered. But I know that all trees and plants have roots, stems, leaves of sorts, bark, branches and foliage that reach up toward the light daily for sustenance. In the end, the magic of of plant (and also human) growth comes from reaching towards the light-- that's truly where the magic is. When you remove the tree from the light, over time it withers and eventually dies or is crippled by the darkness.

The longer we hide, the less self assured, self confident, self loving and self responsible we became: The more we reach out, the stronger and more able we are to face the world. Suggesting that "this is who I am" is a rationalization based on the pure fear of stepping out... one you have sold to yourself for so long it has become like a barnacle attached to your inner psyche. So in the final analysis--- which choice needs to be made here?

Not Mary, I'm sorry if I sound brusque and pushy, but it is compassion and a true empathy that sometimes compels us to speak forcefully. My suggestion is to decide to be just slightly open about the concern you're hiding from, see the therapist's reaction (it should be an inner delight) and if it looks like she is open for more, then slowly and cautiously proceed, one small step at a time. You will likely be very surprised. Keep in mind that this unfolding may take weeks (although for some it is an opening of the flood gates)... but is is an unfolding that seems necessary for healing.

For the record, I've never rejected a client who was open and honest--- irrespective of the issue or their deepest fears: but I have turned clients (as many therapists should) away who hid excessively since I knew we could not work together for an extended period.

Good luck and I hope this helps,

David

Edited May 5, 2010 by David O

[IrmaJean]

Mary, I can say that what David has written above very much held true during my therapy. About 3 months into my sessions with my therapist, I took a risk and revealed something huge to him, something extremely embarrassing which had caused me a great deal of pain and shame. His gentle, accepting and understanding demeanor with me that day solidified our therapeutic relationship. Therapy really hadn't begun until that moment. It was then that I began to work with a purpose in mind and everything took off from there. Not only that, by my having confided in him and having trusted him with my innermost fears and doubts I honestly believe made him much more effective as my therapist. That one session marked the turning point in my therapy.

Edited May 5, 2010 by IrmaJean
grammar