What Do I Do? (!) Trigger Warning (!)

[soregretful]

Is the guy you're sticking with in therapy the CBT therapist you saw last week or is this a different one?

No, that CBT therapist referred me to this guy. What do you think, Beth? How do I just start to feel better?

[Sissagwaad]

perhaps sr could reflect upon a recent Blog here

http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=43218&cn=110

Joel, like Option, focuses on empowering individuals to explore their freedom to choose beliefs, and examine them non-judgementally, as to their usefulness. bw

This Blog is entitled Blogs about inhabiting this present moment

Is that, or is that not, something you are interested in learning how to eliminate SR?

[SweetSue]

Hi soregretful

Just thought I would ask how you are today ?

Also just wondered if you have any hobbies ?

Sometimes its helpful, to give ourself a little break from worry, and well with me my hobby is painting, and when I paint, my worries leave my mind for a time

Take care

[Sissagwaad]

Reading his review:

Will Joel Friedman, Ph.D. is a seasoned clinician in private practice in Pleasanton, CA in the East San Francisco Bay area. Licensed as a psychologist in California since 1987 and in the field since 1976, he specializes in Presence-centered therapy principally with adults and couples. Presence-centered therapy is a conscious attuning to the richness of this present moment (sometimes called mindfulness or wakefulness) along with witnessing, that is, observing what the mind is up to now by looking from outside of it. His practice is centered upon inhabiting this present moment, witnessing and "buying out" of the ego-mind's unworkable patterns, desensitizing root emotional charges, and gaining effective tools to thrive in the world. He specializes in providing therapy for adults facing anxiety, significant stress, work issues, relationship challenges and depression as well as couples with marital issues, communication issues, self-defeating behavior, divorce mediation, co-parenting and pre-marital counseling. Core to his approach is installing, building and developing strong internal resources, an enhanced capacity to hold, bear and tolerate strong emotions, and highly adaptive tools to better thrive in the world.He can be reached directly through his website www.willjoelfriedman.com (featuring over 215 articles, 27 YouTube videos and pages upon pages of highly practical annotated resource links) or by email at drwilljoel@comcast.net . Dr. Friedman is available for business consulting, business training and executive coaching (detail on his home page).

[soregretful]

Hi soregretful

Just thought I would ask how you are today ?

Also just wondered if you have any hobbies ?

Sometimes its helpful, to give ourself a little break from worry, and well with me my hobby is painting, and when I paint, my worries leave my mind for a time

Take care

I am just sad. That is all I know how to be. I wish my worries would leave my mind, but they always seem to be there. I even planned a trip for my girlfriend and I because she says she never really got to go on vacation, and I felt bad, so we are going. I just want to feel genuine happiness one more time though. I just feel like this speedo thing is going to be with me forever.

[Sissagwaad]

I am just sad. That is all I know how to be.

How is entertaining, and thinking this kind of self-limiting notion, at all helpful towards what you say in another breathe, is your wish? Really SR. look at what you are, or have learned to habitually do, thought wise, and work at correcting your self-chosen emotional choices.

I wish my worries would leave my mind, but they always seem to be there. The reason this won't work is because you are merely 'wishing' Trying doesn't cut it either. Doing or not doing, is all that really counts.

We learn or we choose to not work at learning. We are the boss on this account. We direct or choose to not direct, the quality of our thoughts, and therefore the resultant emotional experience we wear

I even planned a trip for my girlfriend and I because she says she never really got to go on vacation, and I felt bad, so we are going. Pardon? you choose to continue to feel bad, about what?

Is it you felt bad about feeling bad, about not allowing yourself to 'go' in the present, with what fun that could be? Don't you see how it is your thinking, and how you build your thoughts, based on your held beliefs about right/wrong/justice, that beg for you to work on?

I just want to feel genuine happiness one more time though. Why just 'one more time?'

is it you simply don't believe you deserve the abundance of happiness that is your inheritance?

I just feel like this speedo thing is going to be with me forever.

I give you a 'hello'!!!! to invite you to explore what you are saying and thusly doing to yourself, rather habitually, vs authentic examination and evaluation.

hugs

[Sissagwaad]

Are you doing any studies SR?

Have you explored the abundant help on the blogs here?

For example here is another

http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=42760&cn=110

3 Steps to Jumpstart Happiness Today

Are you truly looking to change, or to stay where you are emotionally?

Whatever one focuses on, one makes bigger. (Think about it)

What is it you want more of in your life? (learn to stay focused on goals, vs fearful imagenings)

It is another one of those things we deal with every moment of our lives, choice.....free choice. hugs

[IrmaJean]

How do I just start to feel better?

I think that finding a therapist who is a good match for you and staying with that therapist is a good place to start. You need consistent sessions on a weekly basis. I imagine it would be challenging for anyone to make progress in therapy when switching therapists so often. Hopefully now you have the right one for you.

[soregretful]

That's just it....I don't think any therapy in the world will make me feel better. The only thing that I can think of would be to never have done it. I feel so awful, I just want this to end. I don't want to kill myself, but I do not know how to live like this. UGH! Why did I do this to myself?

[Musicman]

SR, I wish it could just be as simple as saying "keep a positive attitude," but I know it's just not that easy. You need to have faith that a professional can help you. Who can better help you than a trained professional? Even if you don't immediately see how it can help, I assure you that it can.

SR, these last few months, and especially this last week, have all been hellish for me. Just like you, I ask myself, "Why did I do this to myself?" but I don't allow myself to become fixated on it. I know that I made a major mistake, but I don't allow myself to become fixated on the "why did I do it?" as much as the "what can I do to get better?"

[SweetSue]

Hi soregretful,

"Why did I do this to myself ?"

Sometimes no matter how much soul searching, we cannot find the answers. Maybe there isnt a "why" and maybe, just maybe it was just something at that time you wanted to do .....

You have changed since then. You had moved on from this. From what I understand for many years.

Perhaps a different question you could ask yourself, is ............

"What can I do now, so that I can once again, move forward ?"

How did you move on from this last time ?

Take care

[soregretful]

Sue,

It is like I totally just forgot about it...I can't explain it. Now, all I can do it think about it. Like I had mentioned, the date on the website is 2004 at the latest...that means for 7 years I was able to let this go? It doesn't make a shred of sense, but you know what, it doesn't make what I did any better. It could have been the boys I love on the screen. Those kids were someone's sons and brothers. They went to school somewhere. They could have been my students. I mean what the heck did I do? I want to die soooooooo much. I am starting not to care what it would do to anyone else. I can not live with this guilt.

[Sissagwaad]

Why is it important why? What about accepting that was then, this is now?

I call the common Why Did I question, a 'stupid' question.

I call it that because it is important to accept that one was simply 'stupid.' and didn't know, or wasn't aware of the repercusions at the time.

So, my suggestion is, get comfortable with accepting that one WAS stupid, and get over it. That was then, this is not then, This is now. What to do with NOW. (let that we not continue to be so stupid as to keep on obsessing with shock that one WAS stupid, and give oneself credit that one knows NOW the difference. hugs

[Musicman]

SR, I'm going to ask you some questions, just so that we can know a little bit better where you're coming from. I'd appreciate it if you answered these.

Why was what you did so terrible?

Are you upset for the kids in the pictures, or upset that you looked at them?

Do you believe in rehabilitation? Is a person who once did bad, but went through rehab, and came out good, worthy of scorn or applause? You've admitted before that the only victim of your actions was yourself. As you seem to believe, because you brought it on yourself, you deserve to suffer. Can this be said for a drug addict or a porn addict?

SR, do you believe in redemption?

[soregretful]

SR, I'm going to ask you some questions, just so that we can know a little bit better where you're coming from. I'd appreciate it if you answered these.

Why was what you did so terrible?

Are you upset for the kids in the pictures, or upset that you looked at them?

Do you believe in rehabilitation? Is a person who once did bad, but went through rehab, and came out good, worthy of scorn or applause? You've admitted before that the only victim of your actions was yourself. As you seem to believe, because you brought it on yourself, you deserve to suffer. Can this be said for a drug addict or a porn addict?

SR, do you believe in redemption?

Why what I did was terrible because there were children in the pictures. I don't even know how much I used them, but that is really irrelevant. Looking at any kid and even having a lustful thought is unforgivable to me. I can't forgive myself for it.

I am upset that I looked at them because kids should not be looked at like that. Even though I never have thought of having a relationship, etc. with a kid, and never would, having just looked feels so horrible to me. The fact that I even know those two website addresses is just reprehensible. I hate that I even know them.

I don't really believe in redemption in this case....those stupid websites are going to be with me forever and I feel like the only way I could ever be happy is to find some way to just remove them. Since that can't happen, full redemption is not achieveable. I was told to think of this as a mistake, but you know what, I went there on purpose. Not that I know what it was, but I can't call this a mistake.

I don't know how a drug or porn addict would react, but maybe they don't have guilt. I do. Even though I have used regular things to stimulate myself in the more recent past, the fact I am sometimes experiencing arousal around kids is just unacceptable to me. I did this to myself so I have to live with the consequences. All of this crap is my own fault. That is what makes the most upset. I did this to myself, and for the life of me, I don't know why!

And Sissa hit it right on.....I wasn't aware of the repercussions at the time...doesn't mean I accept what I did any more though.

Now, let me ask you this, because I am having a hard time getting wrapped around this....why was what I did NOT so terrible to you? Everyone I have told says it's not a big deal, but to me, it is freaking huge. What I did was just about criminal in my book. That is where I need to get....why was what I did NOT so bad in your eyes? In mine, it is pretty horrible.

I want so badly to make love to my girlfriend. I want to express my connection to her in that way and possibly give her the children that she wants. I am afraid that I am somehow broken and will not achieve arousal to be able to do so. If I just felt like I could make love to her, a lot of this would go away because I would feel like, OK, you made a mistake, but you can still get where you want.

[Guest ASchwartz]

SR,

Welcome back and, here we go again.

You said that you are not responsible for what others think. How is that possible? We do not influence what others think by what we do and and how we say it?

Do you really mean that what we say and how we say it will not trigger other people?

Here is a quote from you:

Allan, you pretty much said that other people thought I abused the kids. Don't you think I have the right to be a little defensive? Do I say the speedo thing a lot....yeah, because THAT IS THE HONEST TRUTH and I am just trying to steer people back to the issue I came on here for and away from all the other things you are telling me I did wrong.

There is the crux of the matter: I cannot seem to help you understand that, I am not saying you abused children. What I am saying is that you repeat this so much that you, no one but you, make it seem like you did.

Let's me try to clarify what I am trying to say:

What I am saying, and you admit it, is that you are very obsessive. The topic or center of you obsession is the looking at boys in speedos and feeling aroused. In my thinking, feeling aroused by having looked at boys in speedos is NOT the issue. The real issue, for you, is obsessional thinking. That is why you drive yourself crazy.

There are two things that go on for people, Process and Content. In your case, the Content is looking at boys in speedos and feeling aroused. The Process is obsessional thinking. The process is what is most important.

But, you feel forced to focus only on the content and that gets you nowhere. On other words, I believe you need to work on your obsessional thinking and, until you do, therapy can't really help.

That is where cognitive behavior therapy comes in: it can help you get over obsessing. Along with the therapy, there are self help methods that you can learn and use on your own. Some of them are in our self help book on this site or you can go to any bookstore and you find lots of self help books on how to stop obsessing.

You cannot force yourself to stop talking about this, but, you can learn to refocus your mind elsewhere.

I hope you, and I hope the others, finally understand what I have been trying to say. Look at my process and not my content.

Allan

[soregretful]

SR,

Welcome back and, here we go again.

You said that you are not responsible for what others think. How is that possible? We do not influence what others think by what we do and and how we say it?

Do you really mean that what we say and how we say it will not trigger other people?

Here is a quote from you:

There is the crux of the matter: I cannot seem to help you understand that, I am not saying you abused children. What I am saying is that you repeat this so much that you, no one but you, make it seem like you did.

Let's me try to clarify what I am trying to say:

What I am saying, and you admit it, is that you are very obsessive. The topic or center of you obsession is the looking at boys in speedos and feeling aroused. In my thinking, feeling aroused by having looked at boys in speedos is NOT the issue. The real issue, for you, is obsessional thinking. That is why you drive yourself crazy.

There are two things that go on for people, Process and Content. In your case, the Content is looking at boys in speedos and feeling aroused. The Process is obsessional thinking. The process is what is most important.

But, you feel forced to focus only on the content and that gets you nowhere. On other words, I believe you need to work on your obsessional thinking and, until you do, therapy can't really help.

That is where cognitive behavior therapy comes in: it can help you get over obsessing. Along with the therapy, there are self help methods that you can learn and use on your own. Some of them are in our self help book on this site or you can go to any bookstore and you find lots of self help books on how to stop obsessing.

You cannot force yourself to stop talking about this, but, you can learn to refocus your mind elsewhere.

I hope you, and I hope the others, finally understand what I have been trying to say. Look at my process and not my content.

Allan

Thank you, and here we go again:

Allan, I am not going to even address the issue of abuse. I don't care who thinks I did it, because they are wrong, and honestly, that is the last time I am going to discuss it, and with respect, I hope that no one else even tries to read between the lines that much. I will not even address this issue again. I have told everyone everything honestly in hopes to get help. All I know is that you were the first one to bring this up and until that point, no one even said a word about it.

To tell you the truth, I didn't feel nearly as bad as I did until you mentioned that other people thought I was a child abuser. That is what pushed me over the edge. I told you exactly what my issues are.

Here is a quote from you:

Second, it is not simply "me" who is questioning whether or not you had hurt children. I told you earlier and I told you in this post that, the more and more someone says something others start to believe them. You repeat endlessly and with monotony about how all you did was view kids in speedos and never hurt anyone. Added to that you talk about those two boys. What do you expect will happen when you behave this way? It is not that "I" become suspicious, it is that many become suspicious. To me, Allan, it sounds like you do believe I have abused children.

It is not that I look at boys and feel aroused. I can see a kid walking around in a speedo and not feel anything. It is just that I may have used this to pleasure myself. It was the touch, not just the image. I really don't even know how much this may have happened, but right now, the dillemma I am having with myself is that I even looked in the first place, regardless of what else happened.

I just want to be happy and not hurt all the time. I don't think that is possible anymore. Life sucks and I am the one who made it that way. Every day I want to just die, as I feel that this is the only way to end the suffering I am in. I don't think even the best therapist in the world could help me. And yeah, maybe I am obsessive. It's not like I am saying let's constantly think about this. I am not TRYING to think about it....it is just always there. It is like I am incapable of thinking about anything else. I can't figure that out. If there is a way to stop thinking about this, then I would love to know it, because it's not like I am randomly just picking this to think about.

[Musicman]

Now, let me ask you this, because I am having a hard time getting wrapped around this....why was what I did NOT so terrible to you? Everyone I have told says it's not a big deal, but to me, it is freaking huge. What I did was just about criminal in my book. That is where I need to get....why was what I did NOT so bad in your eyes? In mine, it is pretty horrible.

I've told you why what you did wasn't so terrible many times, but unfortunately, I haven't been able to make a convincing case. What you did wasn't terrible because it was a victimless crime. No kid was ever hurt knowing that you looked at the pictures. The pictures were not pornographic and never showed any signs of abuse. You also did this like 7+ years ago. You claim that it was not a mistake because you intentionally did it, but we've already looked at the definition of "mistake," and we've found that a mistake can be entirely intentional. All this means is that you didn't have good judgement. You didn't know any better. Perhaps you should have, but you didn't. That's acceptable.

SR, why DON'T you believe in redemption in your case? Why are you any different than someone else who did something self-destructive? A drug user not only harms himself, but may harm other people in the process. Still, we applaud him when he quits. But you, someone who committed a victimless crime, we don't applaud? What's the logic in that?

Your arousal around the boys isn't something to constantly worry about. You know that you'd never molest them or any other children. You have no desire to have sex with kids. All that's happening is that your being triggered by the boys. I'll be the first to admit it, but no matter how much I hate myself for this, I'm triggered by reading about cases of child sexual abuse. This abuse is everything that I stand against, but arousal still happens. This has nothing to do with my age, as you've suggested in the past. Everyone has triggers. It's just something to work on.

I want so badly to make love to my girlfriend. I want to express my connection to her in that way and possibly give her the children that she wants. I am afraid that I am somehow broken and will not achieve arousal to be able to do so. If I just felt like I could make love to her, a lot of this would go away because I would feel like, OK, you made a mistake, but you can still get where you want.

By all means, go for it. You're afraid you may be "broken," but do you have any significant reason to believe this? Even if you couldn't become aroused, how bad is that? You'd experience some embarrassment and nothing else. Many men can't become aroused when put under pressure. Your girlfriend would stick by your side anyway. Clearly, she's not in the relationship for sex if she's stayed with you this long. You're once again just cotastrophizing. There's no reason to believe that anything bad will happen.

[SweetSue]

Hi soregretful

Sue,

It is like I totally just forgot about it...I can't explain it. Now, all I can do it think about it. Like I had mentioned, the date on the website is 2004 at the latest...that means for 7 years I was able to let this go? It doesn't make a shred of sense, but you know what, it doesn't make what I did any better. It could have been the boys I love on the screen. Those kids were someone's sons and brothers. They went to school somewhere. They could have been my students. I mean what the heck did I do? I want to die soooooooo much. I am starting not to care what it would do to anyone else. I can not live with this guilt.

You say "it could have been the boys I love on screen", yes that is true it could have been. But you have already told me that it was not. Yes those children were/are someones relative, and went to school. They could have been one of your students......... etc.

There is a lot of things that could have been, but these coulds are not the case. Why are you torturing yorself with the "coulds"?

I hope that you can learn to concentrate on the facts, as you can see them. You are only making things more difficult for yourself with all the "shoulda, woulda, coulda's"

The guilt you are feeling, is terrible guilt, one which you are placing upon your shoulders. Why are you being so unfair to yourself ?

I hope that you can try and learn to overcome this enormous guilt.

I'm not sure if you are recieving therapy, but if you are, and its not working for you, dont be afraid of trying something else, there are many types of therapy, and theres a reason for that, not one type of therapy works for all.

Please, be kinder to you.

Take care

[soregretful]

Sue, the fact that it was any little boy is enough to make me sick to my stomach. Yeah, they weren't my dudes, or my students, but they are someone's. I don't know if you have kids or not Sue, but what if it was your little boy that someone else looked at like this? To be sure, I question some of these parents even letting their children get photographed in such a state of undress, but that doesn't make me any better. God, all I ever wanted was to just be happy, but I have shot that idea. What if it were your children on the screen guys....wouldn't it make you sick?

[SweetSue]

Sue, the fact that it was any little boy is enough to make me sick to my stomach. Yeah, they weren't my dudes, or my students, but they are someone's. I don't know if you have kids or not Sue, but what if it was your little boy that someone else looked at like this? To be sure, I question some of these parents even letting their children get photographed in such a state of undress, but that doesn't make me any better. God, all I ever wanted was to just be happy, but I have shot that idea. What if it were your children on the screen guys....wouldn't it make you sick?

Hi soregretful

In answer to your question, yes I am a moma, infact Im expecting again ,

You want to be happy, that is one thing we all want, try work towards being happy, concentrate on doing things you enjoy, rather than making things more complicated for yourself, by asking irrelevant questions. You are only trying to add to your pain.

What about therapy soregretful ?, you know, people really benefit from it, so could you - if you gave it a chance

Take care

[Musicman]

SR, perhaps I'm saying this from a distorted viewpoint, but if I knew that you or someone like you looked at pictures of my child, I'd be understanding. If someone did it for long periods of time, without ever having felt any regret, that would be a different story. I can't say that anyone would agree with me on this, but that's honestly how I feel.

And congratulations SweetSue!

[soregretful]

Hi soregretful

In answer to your question, yes I am a moma, infact Im expecting again ,

You want to be happy, that is one thing we all want, try work towards being happy, concentrate on doing things you enjoy, rather than making things more complicated for yourself, by asking irrelevant questions. You are only trying to add to your pain.

What about therapy soregretful ?, you know, people really benefit from it, so could you - if you gave it a chance

Take care

When people don't answer the questions, Sue, I read into them that they would be just disgusted. Sue, I would give anything to be able to reach where you are. My girlfriend is wonderful and she wants to be a mom so bad. That is really all that I want. I have worked for almost a third of my life taking care of other people's children....why can't I have my own? Do you really think I could get there? I can't even be happy. It is hard just to be alive. What can therapy do? It isn't like the can erase my memory? All I ever want for the rest of my life Sue, is to just have someone to come home to and love every night. I have a wonderful girlfriend, but I can't bring myself to feel worth being around her. She has told me point blank that she wants to have babies with me. How can I even try to make love to her knowing that this is on my mind?

I wish I could get to where you are Sue! I want to have a family...that is all that I care about right now. Most people would probably have a heart attack if they found out that their significant other had done what I did. I can't say I blame them. It is the worst thing I could have done. I just hate the I put myself there. Sad thing, like I said, all these people keep telling me what a great dad I would be. Little do they know that I watched the Chippendiddys. God, will I ever forget that word? Can I ever just be freaking happy again?

I am willing to listen to anything, guys. I want to just move past this, and if it is physiologically possible, be a daddy. Even still, would I be happy? I really screwed myself.

[SweetSue]

Believe, you wouldnt want the situation Im facing right now - but that is a whole different issue. Each of us just have to deal with things the best we can.

You ask what therapy can do for you, I cannot answer that. As mostly it depends on the therapist, and how you apply yourself to therapy - well thats how I see it anyway - I could be wrong.......

Ive had therapy, different types over the years - some therapies work for me - some do not. But you never know until you try

Take care

(thanks Musicman )

[Musicman]

SR, would the fact that you watched Chippendiddys make you a bad father? Has it made you a bad teacher? If you'd love a child, that's all there is to it. Having watched the Chippendiddys isn't putting your (potential) child at risk for bad fathering.

SR, why haven't you become intimate with your girlfriend? Is it because you don't feel capable, or is it because you feel too guilty and don't feel you deserve it? You said that if you could become intimate with your girlfriend, it would help you see your own worth. I say just go for it and hope for the best . If that's what it takes to get you on the right track, why not give it a shot?