What Do I Do? (!) Trigger Warning (!)

[Musicman]

SR, you know that I have been supporting you from the very beginning, so I hope you take what I have to say into consideration.

The thought never once occurred to me that you ever abused a child. However, I can see why others could get the idea. I am not saying that their reasons are justified, but this is a community of emotionally distressed members. If you say something that is offending others (whether rightfully so or not,) it is best that you stop. You've already instilled in all of our minds that you never touched a child inappropriately. I apologize, but neither you nor I can control how people perceive statements.

SR, these last few posts have clearly put you through a ton of distress. I think it's best that you take a few days and not visit these forums. Once you've had time to calm down, you should start posting again. Otherwise, you will only post out of frustration, and so will everyone else.

Remember SR: I am always here for you. If you EVER want to talk, please PM me. I am on your side, and would like to help in any way possible.

PS. I think it's great that you've now started CBT treatment.

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

I'm delighted to see that we're finally down from "human nature" over "many" to the actual "several" people you are really talking about.

I can't say I feel particularily safe in a community that is moderated like this. It costs me a lot of time I should use otherwise, just to protect members from unjustified assaults.

[Sissagwaad]

I'm delighted to see that we're finally down from "human nature" over "many" to the actual "several" people you are really talking about.

I can't say I feel particularily safe in a community that is moderated like this. It costs me a lot of time I should use otherwise, just to protect members from unjustified assaults.

like what?

Is it possible you can speak less in riddles?

All of us possibly are simply not up to your level

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

I'm not going to explain anything more, because I'm off. This is getting dangerous for my wellbeing. The next person to say "the best for the community" I'd quite possibly spit in the face for this community was based on helping and respecting people and not on making them responsible for other peoples problems. The way more sensitivity is demanded on behalf of the community instead of simply asking for it, just makes me wish I didn't need to be here. Or in other words, I'd better not explain more and just be off. Take care.

[Guest ASchwartz]

There are two issues that I feel need to be addressed here:

1. I am sure that you have heard of the term, coming from Shakespeare, I believe, "Thou dost protest too much." It is not than anyone believes the SR abused a child, it is rather that he dost protest too much. That is why we DO affect what others think, from time to time. That's what is so frustrating to get across here.

2. Somethingorother, I regret that you feel unsafe here because of the way this community is being moderated. I regret that because we are trying to maintain an atmosphere of safety. I can report to you that all of the moderators have received distressed PMs from members, people who felt upset, provoked, triggered and aggravated by the SR discussion. In fact, many of those people stated that they felt unsafe. We agreed to respond in a way that would assure and protect others and in the hope that SR would not feel injured.

His being given time to take off and think about things was not taken lightly, and was in response to the distressed call from others as well as the perceptions of the moderators.

I think you put it aptly when you wrote that I, in my role, have to take into consideration, the needs of the many. That does not make the needs of a single person unimportant. That is why all of us have advised SR to resume his medication and talk to his psychiatrist as well as return to therapy.

So, please understand that we very much care about all of you, including SR, and have the safety of all in mind.

Allan

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

....................

[Sissagwaad]

whew....boy!!! communications and being clearly understood, can be challanging, yup.

SoO, I'm guessing I have a sense of where you are in part coming from.

I too am more for open-ness, looking at whatever issues others may be having, on a case by case situation, because, ultimately each of us is an individual.

The drama SR shares and to not take it personally, can be challanging to accept.

This is though an opportunity for leadership in fascilitating others to grow and to learn, each in their efforts to become emotionally healthier in ones relationship with everything that comes along.

Banning people, or acting as a protective entity, while well intended, i suggest does little to encourage individuals to grow responsibly or learn from these opportunities. Instead the possibility of limiting the potential lesson, by merely justifying the choice to be upset or triggered by anything, and removing any and all responsibility from the individual that may be at some point confused by whatever is going on. (is this what you are speaking to SoO?

[Sissagwaad]

Thankfully I am still being allowed by the powers that be, to share my respectful questions.

First I admire and think it demonstrates a willingness to trust, that Al, in his concerns for the choices others might make with their emotional reactions to the issues SR is struggling with, has allowed all the dialogue that contributors have out of love and concern given the gift of their time and thoughts to, to stand.

There was another forum years ago, hosted by a psychiatrist, quite full of himself, that took it upon himself to 'save his flock,' by dismissing and destroying all the efforts people contributed, clearly of the mistaken belief that it was best for 'the community,' or the individuals, that they too, just dismiss and shortsightedly take away from the participants any opportunity there might be to learn from the engagement and the dialogue.

I'm not going to mention the forum, but some here may know of who or what I am referring to. The fact this forum is founded and maintained by a psychologist instead of a psychiatrist, is perhaps the reason it might be of more helpful service for those looking to improve their understanding and management of their respective emotional issues.

My main reason for writing, I'm thinking SR can see these public forums, but is banned from being contacted directly, or privately. This is unfortunate, and i respect this decision as your rightful perrogative Al.

If sr, for your reasons, is not able to receive my pm's, as it seems, or even view this message, would you be so kind as to forward my private contact information? i would like the opportunity to continue being supportive to him. I have a facebook presence as Sissagwaad, and a hotmail email sissagwaad@hotmail.com Thank you Al. (and everyone,) I believe you are doing what you believe is best, in supporting the individuals that make this forum work as well as it does, and allowing the postings to stand, is proof of your wisdom.

[Musicman]

I'm confused. Is SR now banned? I understand that we need to look out for what's best for the community, but I fear that banning him may have been too hasty a decision. SR has stated on numerous occasions that he's suicidal. I don't think it's safe to ever push someone who's made that claim. I can understand why certain people have become upset at SR because of this thread, but truthfully, this is HIS thread, and he's only posting upsetting information right here. People have the choice to skip over this thread. As long as SR isn't spreading hate or being to graphic (which I don't believe he's done,) I think he has the right to continue posting. I fear that now, he may not return.

I appreciate everything the mods have done for this community, and I appreciate all of the advice they've given me. Still, I feel that this should be reconsidered.

SoO, I understand your frustration, but it would ultimately be best if you didn't leave. You have offered some of the best advice in this thread. Your presence will surely be missed.

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

Thank you Musicman. I appreciate your words and they will probably help more than mine, but I've come to the conclusion that there is no helping SR in a crowd of people who have all kinds of interests, but not this one, and that has an authority who fails to understand that you can't ban people just because their posts might have triggered someone. I'd try to get Mark into this, but really how much energy do you think I have for wasting. I'm not even willing to honour this with my presence. I don't want people to get the impression that it means they can trust the authorities and I don't want them to stay any longer because of my presence just to be hit by those authorities.

Take care.

[IrmaJean]

I would like to explain further about why this occurred. The moderators act as a team and always consult whenever possible, but sometimes decisions have to be made quickly by the few who are available and on site. I was one of those people that night, and take full responsibility for my role in this. Decisions to ban any member are not taken lightly. They can be agonizing, but they are also necessary at times.

Though we did receive several complaints about this thread, SR was not banned because any member was triggered, and I want to make that very clear. It's true that ultimately members are responsible for their own triggers and are strongly encouraged to avoid threads which could potentially be triggering. In saying this, all members should always be mindful and considerate of the potential effect their posts can have on others.

SR broke board policies for unsafe posting, when he wrote about having a suicide plan. This is very clearly written in our rules. He also broke rules for disrespecting members and was writing antagonizing posts. He was clearly in distress and not in a position to write anything which would have promoted his emotional health and well-being. Hopefully this breathing period (it was a temporary punishment) will give him adequate time to regain his footing so he can return as a member of our community.

I hope this helps in understanding the recent decisions that have been made.

SoO, I will say again that we value your presence here. I hope that you will consider staying on the forum.

[Sissagwaad]

Yesterday, I happened to have taken time from my busy schedule, out of loving concern and heart-felt support, to compose and to post a useful reminder for those dealing with emotional distress, such as SR, etc.

I went out of my way to be clear that i was not advocating not taking legalized drugs, or dropping taking drugs 'suggested' by well intending psychiatrists. I suggested being an informed consumer, rather than the temptation to blindly trust.

I also asked for clarification as to whether SR can see posts, if he wanted, and perhaps review all the loving support the contributors of this forum have extended, and possibly re-evaluate the reasons for his obsessive choices.

I informed everyone that i am public on facebook, and can be contacted there privately, seeing as how some authority figure here has set this forum up that 'banned' individuals cannot even communicate privately either.:eek:

If these well thought out contributions of mine have been removed, i would appreciate the courtesy of copying the posting, returning copy to me with their justifications/sensibilities, for so doing. If i had any idea posts were going to start 'disappearing' i would certainly have taken steps to archive what it is i said, to perhaps attempt to understand the nature of the mindset doing such deletions.

I suggest that nothing is gained by deleting posts, and an important opportunity for growth treated disrespecfully.

[IrmaJean]

I am personally not aware of anything having been removed, Sissa, and SR is able to read the thread, yes.

[Sissagwaad]

I am personally not aware of anything having been removed, Sissa, and SR is able to read the thread, yes.

i believe it was/would have been/ post after musicman yesterday afternoon, 209> and was 2 or 3 separate postings, which i saw as posted, unresponded to until soO's post at 4:57 this morning, and your later post

[IrmaJean]

You are Post 207 and 208. I am unaware of anything having been removed and see your post about Facebook and contacts.

[Sissagwaad]

my mistake i was referring to what i contributed to rubies in 'fear'.

I embrace my doofusness and yet, there is still in my recollection, perhaps another coffee will help, where i questioned not having the ability to reach out to SR......so, if he can if he likes see the postings, it is up to him what he does or doesn't do with the information therein....ok

[Guest ASchwartz]

Something,

I regret that you want to leave here. You seem to have taken this issue with SR very personally, as if we were discussing you. We are not and let's clarify a few things:

SR is only banned a few days and then he can return. The purpose was not punisment but to give him time to think about things. I have one regret about this and it's that he should have been cautioned, first, before the ban. Instead, it was done without that caution. That is something that will not be repeated. Also, SR can see all the posts here.

I guess all of you on this thread totally disgree with the way everything has unfolded here and are feeling frustrated, SR as well. I understand that and empathize. At the very same time, I also feel frustrated. My point to SR seems to go unheard and I don't know why. Now, my point about the temporary ban also goes unheard and I don't know why. I do understand all of your disagreement and I agree this could have been handled a lot better. I fully understand the anger you feel. Why is it that no one here seems to understand that there is another point of view. Something, your feel threatened. Well, others who PM'd me also feel threatened. Also, I have repeatedly told SR that, it's not a matter of me thinking he is a pedophile but that there is something self destructive about the way he discusses this issue of his. By the way, the reason for my pointing this out to SR is that others, in their pms, are starting to think that way.

I wish people would come out and say what they have to directly to the community, as many of you here are doing, and not by PM where no one else can see.

Something, it is your right to leave here and I have the sense that you already have left. It is much better for all of us to stay and work issues out. That is why we are here.

Allan

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

Why oh why? Well, maybe I can answer some of your questions.

Your main point was that SR hurts a lot of people. Maybe you don't think that was your main point, but it was. And not only because SRs listening would predictably and unwisely focus on it. You don’t even see it as the incorrect, hurtful comment that it is. You think it’s wrong to react with outrage, I don’t. You think you can make people think by not allowing them to post. That’s arrogant. Do you expect SR to regret that he might have triggered people in different ways, after all the unhelpful posts he’s gotten by now, including yours? Really? Also, you didn’t post to help SR communicating with others, you posted worrying about the feelings of people who PMed you, half of which I’ve probably pissed off earlier when I told them their discussion has no place in this thread, because it upsets SR. Those people believe SR has crossed boundaries? Well, tell me something I don’t know yet, because the whole boundary discussion is exactly what they were told to stop. And it had stopped in the meantime, but you just couldn’t let it go, while SR did his best to focus on the guilt issue at hand, instead. I suppose it would be disrespectful to call you a puppet, but that neatly describes what I’m thinking.

I could PM that, but I guess that sort of stopped being an option in this case.

[IrmaJean]

SoO, I'm glad you returned to express your feelings. I hear that you're still very angry. I think it's good for us to talk about this. Hopefully all of us can learn something from this experience, including me.

We welcome SR back if he decides to return.

[Musicman]

Looking at SR's profile, I can see that he last logged on a little more than an hour ago. My fear of him doing something terrible has diminished. Still, I can't be sure that he will begin posting again. The truth is that even if he's come out feeling worse, I believe that we've helped him. We've convinced him to attend therapy.

I do think that people have been a little hard on him for a while. Everyone has been telling him he should have had boundaries, but in a sense, haven't a good amount of people here crossed their own? We've taken a very fragile person and made him feel shittier than ever. It's a wonder he's even visited these forums since his ban. Weren't insensitive posts that others have made towards SR triggering him?

I respect what the moderators here have done. They've shown that they value the community and want everyone here to be happy. However, I think this was exemplified very poorly. Rather than a ban, the title to this thread could have simply been changed to include the word "trigger." No warning was ever offered to SR that he was going to be banned. Still, I'm more frustrated with the moderators than I am angry at them. All of them have been a valuable part of this community. Many of them have also offered valuable advice for my own problems.

SoO, I'm relieved that you've once again posted here, though judging from the sound of your post, you don't intend to stay. Just remember, though, that if you choose to leave, SR is the one who suffers. The moderators won't. Ultimately, the choice is yours.

[Guest ASchwartz]

Something and others,

Wow, you are very angry with me. I want to assure you and everyone that its perfectly okay. I do not ban people for expresssing their anger or criticism at me.

Allan

[SweetSue]

Hi Allan,

erm, just popping in, to send out some hugs, to all of you that are hurting so intensely today, and sending out some peace vibes, and hoping its contagious.......

Anger is a strangely overpowering emotion, sometimes anger is justified, but all too often, its miss directed, or transferred, try not to take it to heart hun.

your still well thought of here by many - including me

Take care.

[Leo1954]

somethingorothers

I was just also expressing my opinion. I was also angry I have not been on here because I also had to calm myself down, not because of anybody else. I might of jumped but, yes I should of thought but, I was flacked by sr if you go back he berated me so I didn't respond that's why you didn't see me but, I was reading .

. You have also been very angry but, you are also expressing your feelings on how you feel & that's your right.

[Sissagwaad]

What is it that goes on that has us choosing, whether we admit to it or not, that we're feeling/experiencing, putting ourselves into an angry place?

We'll for me, (not that it matters to anyone else,) I've come to appreciate, and to own the fact that #1 it is me that is doing it to me.

Blaming outside influences comes down basically not taking responsibility, (denial,) for how I am choosing to think and feel, making excuses instead.

Most of my anger, I realize, comes from a frustration with myself.

Unfortunately I'm often misunderstood. The fact is i'm not as much angry with others, as I am with myself.

(either not knowing better, how to respond, forgetting not to take things personally, and the biggie is when one gets angry, the voice tends to go up in volume, and tends to frighten, rather than fascilitate thinking/considering whatever, it gets taken as adversarial, which is never what I'm about.

I tend to catch myself rather quickly, and acknowledge/accept ownership for my actions, but as so often is the case, the damage has been done, the 'other' is running with their fearful reactions, and it then takes much more to smooth out what comes from fear.

[soregretful]

OK....I am back. I never wanted anyone to start getting pissed off at each other, I just honestly wanted help for me.

The reason I seem so defensive is that people are giving me more issues to deal with than the one I came on here for. I only feel guilt about the websites. I am not here to discuss if boundaries are crossed, because I do not have any guilt about that.

I am not here to discuss having triggered people, because people can just ignore this post, like Musicman said. Also, you have the urgent forum where people tell you that they are thinking about suicide all the time and those people get a slap on the wrist.

Finally, and most poignantly, I AM NOT ON HERE TO DISCUSS WHAT ANY OF YOU THINK MAY HAVE HAPPENED BETWEEN ME AND THE BOYS. I am actually pretty pissed that I was told people are starting to wonder if I abused them. Screw that! I am still mad, and yeah, "I doth protesteth too much" because people are not even trying to help me. They are just giving me more to feel bad about. Please, if you want to help me, don't talk about boundaries, because you know what, I do not feel bad about them. Do not tell me who I trigger, because you know what, what other people do as a result of reading not only my post, but any of the other posts that are marked urgent, is NOT NOW, nor will it ever be my responsibility.

And finally, if you think for a second that I molested boys, you can sign off right now. I am not trying to be a jerk, but I do not need any type of counseling on any of those issues. I JUST WANT HELP WITH THE GUILT!!!

It's like if I said, guys my legs hurt, and you are like, well, didn't you check your arms? Are your eyes bloodshot? Are your fingernails trimmed? That is so unrelated to what I came on here to get help with. Please, and I say this with as much respect as possible, don't offer any advice that doesn't pertain to my problem, OK? It doesn't help me to feel any better if you just give me more crap to feel worse about.

I was banned for being disrepectful, but you know what, I feel like a lot of opportunities were taken to kick me while I was down. And you were all worried about the safety of other members? Does anyone give a *^%^ about what they said to me? Allan, you pretty much said that other people thought I abused the kids. Don't you think I have the right to be a little defensive? Do I say the speedo thing a lot....yeah, because THAT IS THE HONEST TRUTH and I am just trying to steer people back to the issue I came on here for and away from all the other things you are telling me I did wrong.

To be honest, the ban came as a complete shock because I feel like a lot of people disrespected me. And again, with complete honesty and utmost respect, don't even bring up abuse in this thread again. It is not what happened, has no place in this discussion, and the mere fact that any of you think I may have done it is a perfect example of the provocative and disprespectful behavior you accused me of. I love all of the support guys, but taking someone's only support because you can't see why I might be a little mad wasn't exactly the most helpful thing you could have done. I never meant to cause a riot, and I will stop posting if I am just forcing everyone to take sides. This just isn't worth it. I get more help from just trying to sleep to avoid living.