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mts you are not whining. We are all here to share what's on our mind.

Let me be clear here mts, I have zero medical training and is why I suggest seeing a professional.

Now just by way of thoughtful conversation, it seems to me that if you had in some way permanently damaged your facial muscles you would 1. Have pain. 2. Would not be able to make normal expressions. 3. Would like have other health consequences in the effected area such as infection,

scarring, issues w blood flow etc.

I suspect that whatever wrinkles you have are just the expression of your genetics over time. Believe me when I say my face is far from wrinkle free and I have used creams, supplements, face yoga - all to no avail.

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I suspect that whatever wrinkles you have are just the expression of your genetics over time. Believe me when I say my face is far from wrinkle free and I have used creams, supplements, face yoga - all to no avail.

omg, "face yoga", lmao. now i've heard it all . and i thought regular yoga was bad enough :D .

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My idea was that the muscles "grew" rather than stretched, that is, my holding down gave resistance to the muscles so that by exerting force with those muscles they would grow. But that's totally insane, even if they did grow surely they wouldn't grow in the right direction.

Perhaps you're right Victimof...!

This is all a lot to think about and I'm tired. It might be worth mentioning I'd just been hospitalized twice for "breakdowns" before all of this.

I'll have a proper think/write about this tomorrow.

sorry about that mts.

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I'm sorry for your pain, Klingsor and mts. :(

Does anything help to ground you when you feel this way, Klingsor? Maybe deep breathing or holding something that is comforting? These things help me when I'm distressed, though you might find something else fits better for you.

Mts, about writing...have you ever tried free writing without worrying about grammar?

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My plan is go walking for the next two days in places where there are people. I'll try to get used smiling at people. I don't know if it's a good idea, since people often look angrily back. I may spend some time around the place where I'll be having meetings, to get used to being there. Not sure if it will help...not sure if any of this will help. But it's something....

A reconnaissance mission. I like it. I do the same from time to time. Get the lay of the land, take in the vibe.

Stay positive mts; it sounds like you are making progress.

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Thanx for sharing that story Klingsor. I am always struck by the similarities many of us share.

The reason i chose the screen name I did was that was the experience that defined me. The almost daily put downs and roughing up, the threats, the mocking, a few actual beatings, it ended up in me hating myself more than my tormentors could ever dream. This would have been mostly, but not entirely, from 3rd through 8th grade. By the time of HS I had grown a bit, changed schools, & learned to stay on the sidelines of life and there I have remained. No wife, no kids, no girlfriend, few friends, no career, no vacations, no fond memories, just fear and misery. Why am I even alive? Waiting for death?

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....

Don't know what this means, but there it is. Doubt anybody gives a shit.

i give a shit about you, mts, victim, etc.. i also had (and still do) many problems with my father, one of his friends used to ask me about him and say: "how's the warden?" which is true, because often it did seem like a prison.

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yup, and it was worst for me because i was the oldest. there were stuff he wouldn't let me do, not too many though, but worse was that he made me do things i didn't wanna do, like learning certain things, which might not have been so bad with the proper motivation and not against my will. and of course he beat us, mostly me, naturally. ah, the good old days....

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