whining thread

[mts]

@Small I liked your posts about us having different parts, and bubbles. I think our thoughts all come from memories, so it seems there is always a cause from the past, and the various aspects of us that intervene to decide are also influenced. It's tricky...I don't understand.

I'm better at reading, I'm not good at posting. But I felt like you were having a good discussion.

[Small]

@mts Yeah, some good points there. Certainly our past influences and conditions our psyches, which formulate thought patterns that are retrieved as contextual memories. Sometimes it's our parents voice that formulate our working thoughts too. That's why experience shapes us more comprehensively than simple information or knowledge. I withdrew from the discussion because we had reached the very foundation of our respective arguments, and because they were non-falsifiable or difficult to prove, I didn't have much more to say. I respect everyone's views, and when they disagree, I would like to think I can exercise restraint and let things be

But yes, I believe our egos are our choice mechanisms and I've noted why. I'm glad you enjoyed the discussion, and thank you also for sharing your thoughts, I agree with them.

[IrmaJean]

Draco (like the new screen name), I enjoy reading your posts. I find your deep thoughts get my mind going and energized and this is always positive. Thank you for your well-wishes.

Free will is limited to our world or sometimes to the circumstances, I feel. I can't will myself to fly, for instance. I'm always looking for choices I can make, though, even if it's only a choice to how I respond during circumstances I can't control.

Our first relationships are so important, I think. I also believe attachment issues may be the root of a lot of psychological struggles.

CD, I agree that everyone has struggles at times.

Res, even if you can't live out in nature maybe you might be able to spend some time in nature? It could at least bring some feelings of relief, even if short-lived. I find it helps me tremendously. About feeling pushed down, do you ever feel angry and want to push back?

[Resolute]

1- Res, even if you can't live out in nature maybe you might be able to spend some time in nature? It could at least bring some feelings of relief, even if short-lived. I find it helps me tremendously. 2- About feeling pushed down, do you ever feel angry and want to push back?

1- there isn't really real nature nearby where i live, so must travel etc., which is impossible for me. also, most places worth seeing are crowded, and crowded places are among the things i hate most.

2- i feel (or used to feel) pretty darn upset, but i'm stupid enough to think that i can actually beat "god".

[Resolute]

as i've stated before, compatibilism (soft determinism) is probably the most popular stance among both average people and philosophers (according to a 2009 philpapers survey, that out of the 931 "philosophers" surveyed, 59.1% accept or lean towards compatibilism, 13.7% for libertarianism, and just 12.2% for determinism) alike. this means that 87.8% of philosophers reject determinism.

the statistics are even less in my favor here on the forum since everyone seems to be a compatibilist, with the exception of myself of course, and perhaps klingsor. i therefor sought out some reinforcements.

an excerpt from daniel c dennett's (who is not a determinist) review of sam harris' (a determinist) book "free will":

He is not alone among scientists in coming to the conclusion that the ancient idea of free will is not just confused but also a major obstacle to social reform. His brief essay is, however, the most sustained attempt to develop this theme, which can also be found in remarks and essays by such heavyweight scientists as the neuroscientists Wolf Singer and Chris Frith, the psychologists Steven Pinker and Paul Bloom, the physicists Stephen Hawking and Albert Einstein, and the evolutionary biologists Jerry Coyne and (when he’s not thinking carefully) Richard Dawkins.

i shall muster additional allies and proof....

[Guest ChinaDoll]

I wonder why you argue about things like this. Whether you are able to prove it or not, to me it feels like it doesn't solve the main issue which is depression. After the debate, you find yourself still in the same chair staring in front of the same screen.

Sorry... I don't really understand what I'm trying to say. I'm not trying to discourage you from your debate but I just don't see why you won't expend such energy into something more positive.

Just dont ask me what positive is right now. Im so confused that I dont know why I replied to this either.

[Resolute]

I wonder why you argue about things like this. Whether you are able to prove it or not, to me it feels like it doesn't solve the main issue which is depression. After the debate, you find yourself still in the same chair staring in front of the same screen.

Sorry... I don't really understand what I'm trying to say. I'm not trying to discourage you from your debate but I just don't see why you won't expend such energy into something more positive.

Just dont ask me what positive is right now. Im so confused that I dont know why I replied to this either.

don't be confused, doll. i appreciate all input.

you're sort of new here, so you don't know just how resolute i really am. i've been done with things like "expending energy into something positive" as (unless proven otherwise) for some time now, as i do not believe that there is anything positive. i do however enjoy debating, and it helps me process things. not to mention keeps me occupied.

my depression isn't going anywhere (and neither are my other chronic problems) regardless of what i do or don't do; and i'd rather not waste my time and energy in futility.

[Small]

If I was a determinist, I would be a lot less stressed out about my life. I suppose, there's a tranquillity to leaving things in the hands of god. Perhaps I would experience a sense of peace, an not worry so much about what tomorrow may or may not bring. I would also be far less productive though, and work with a cavalier approach; with no real conviction or energy. If hard work does yield a better outcome, which I'm sure we can agree,then the ''Draco'' I am now would probably outdo his counterpart determinist. He'd probably burn himself out though, and end up dead, face down in a ditch. Like a boss!

[Resolute]

i agree that believing in determinism would probably cause most people to be far less productive. that doesn't seem to be the case for hawking and einstein though.

i expressed in a previous post in response to beth that having these beliefs isn't necessarily a good thing. it's a double edged sword of sorts (has its pros and cons). i adopt this theory because it makes the most sense, even though it leaves many unanswered questions (as i'm sure klingsor would agree), such as "why"? etc..

one could argue that this is all unfalsifiable, and therefor pointless. i would ask such a person whether he/she is dismissing all deductive reasoning.

[IrmaJean]

A capital R...

If you know things can't get better, you are closing yourself off from the possibilities.

Isn't it positive that you have a caring part who wants to support others? Does it feel good to connect with that aspect of yourself? Maybe something to build on?

[Resolute]

well, i guess that officially makes me the only determinist here.

[Resolute]

1- A capital R...

2- If you know things can't get better, you are closing yourself off from the possibilities.

3- Isn't it positive that you have a caring part who wants to support others? Does it feel good to connect with that aspect of yourself? Maybe something to build on?

1- do you like it?

2- alleged possibilities. i argue that there are no real possibilities.

also, the same argument could be made about "god's"omniscience; that we are coerced to do what he already knows.

3- i'm a strict determinist at the moment; which means that everything about me, others, and the universe is predetermined, effectively making everything worthless, including the caring part of me. it's sad but true.

sorry for my negativity; i just don't see any way around it. thanks for your support though.

[Small]

@Klingsor

Would you consider hanging around? I have long been suspicious that you, resolute and I can only function together as a trio. Remove one of us from the equation and the other two will eventually, be at each other's throats! *Tosses you a cold beer*

[Small]

@Resolute Awww, do you feel special?

[IrmaJean]

Klingsor, as always, I wish you healing and wellness. We are here if and when you return. Thank you too for your support. It means a lot.

I do like the capital R, yes.

[Resolute]

@Klingsor

Would you consider hanging around? I have long been suspicious that you, resolute and I can only function together as a trio. Remove one of us from the equation and the other two will eventually, be at each other's throats! *Tosses you a cold beer*

ya klingsor, who else would save draco from me if i get upset with him?

@Resolute Awww, do you feel special?

very.

Klingsor, as always, I wish you healing and wellness. We are here if and when you return. Thank you too for your support. It means a lot.

same here.

I do like the capital R, yes.

excellent.

[Resolute]

you guys remember when the system wasn't updating my status to "senior member"? i think that was last year. well, it seems that now it has recognized me as a 'super member'.

[Guest ChinaDoll]

Eh? He's gone??? I thought he wanted to help with the site. I remember him posting about it last time. That's really sad.

I'm confused. Did something happen while I was off forcing myself to do something that resembles productivity? But if its for the best then that's good. He is always welcome here.

[Guest ChinaDoll]

Congratulations on that. I just noticed I've been promoted to Senior Member myself. Is this determined by post count?

[Resolute]

Congratulations on that. I just noticed I've been promoted to Senior Member myself. Is this determined by post count?

yes it's determined by post count, but the system does have glitches. the 'super member' thing is actually meant as a joke. the site doesn't have any such title. 'senior member' is the highest ranking.

[Guest ChinaDoll]

Lol. Wait, you changed the Senior Member to Super Member? How'd you do that?

[Resolute]

from the "edit my profile" page.

[Small]

I've just had a huge setback pertaining to my health. It's a blow I wasn't expecting, but I was dealt it pretty flush on my naïve little chin. It feels like no matter what I do, I can't get ahead. A depends on doing B first, B depends on doing C before it, but C depends on completing A to begin with. It really does feel like all my doors are closed, and what I've been working towards for years has been derailed in 2 days. I just feel like locking myself away from the world again to nurse my aching wounds. I feel like hugging my mum and telling her that her son has failed. I don't know what to do. Maybe resolute is right after all. I feel like I was created some sort of a punch bag, to suffer, and nothing more. I have had about 5 major setbacks with countless smaller ones, but I kept on going because felt that if I persisted long enough it would get me somewhere. Even when I was too wounded & exhausted to go on, I bit down and crawled like a mongrel dog! Like a thirsty sailor turning to fucking sea water for relief, my own efforts have destroyed me.

[Resolute]

i don't know what to say. i'm really sorry. i was actually happy for you when things were going well (or relatively well) for you.

[Small]

Work is fine. My prick boss is a smug little cunt with some of my work to his name. It's my health. It's destroying me, and the more I try, the worse it gets. Like pulling on a knot.