Small Penis - One Man's Pain

[Jessie]

Thanks Ceci,

She phoned this evening to let me down nicely- she was a really graceful person actually.

She gave me a pep talk as well- which was a bit odd but welcome I guess.

I'm gonna keep away from the speed date evenings for the next month or so- I don't wanna bump into her.

And this is the 5th girl who's rejected me due to my size- so I feel I need to take a deep breath before jumping back on- if it happens again in close succession I may not handle it very well at all.

I dunno- maybe Malign was right- maybe I need to interact on a social level only- stop thinking I NEED to have an intimate relationship.

1000's or even millions dont so why should I? Its not a birth right...

After all, its not like I want to have kids of my own. I need to develop a self sufficiency and keep an even keel. This emotional yo yo ing is making me ill.

[Jessie]

Hi Sky

She said that if it was just a fling then it would have been fine but she said at her age she wanted something meaningful and long term perhaps leading to kids and for her personally, 'intercourse compatibility' was important.

She went to great pains to say that other women have different preferences and she said one of her friends had a smaller partner who she was now pregnant with. (she said that about 15 times!)

She said she respected me bringing it up and that I had a healthy attitude about it- and I would be sure to find someone.

ps she actually said similar stuff to what my 3rd girlfriend told me although with 10 times more tact.

but still- a rejection is a rejection- Im high as a kite now by the way (anti depressants)- but I have booked an extra day off work tomorrow as I am gonna be in a massive depression.

[Cece.dedesl]

Communication is key to a relationship but during dating you really shouldn't discuss such intimate details. I don't want to make you feel worse but, if a guy brought up his penis size to me on date 2, whether he was bragging or discussing concerns I would probably walk away. It's just not appropriate at that stage of the relationship.

You have to build a connection with a woman. As long as you have an emotional connection and the sex is satisfying then you will see that size does not have to be an issue.

Given the measurements you disclosed, I really don't see where you would have a problem satisfying a woman. As I disclosed my ex was 4.5" in length and maybe 2" in girth and the sex was very satisfying. Well, it was until he became obsessed with his size.

A lot of confidence comes with simple acceptance. I think a lot of you guys have a mean little demon in your head that make dating/relationships more complex than it needs to be. It doesn't matter what you have in your pants. It does matter how you let it effect your behavior.

[Jessie]

Ceci,

Well I hope you are right... that I put her off as it was 'TMI' too soon- but she said at the time she was glad I shared.

And she kind got me to talk about it anyways- cos of the restaurant incident. And I only answered her questions in general terms and only about length- she apparently though all guys were pretty much the same when hard 'its only about 6 inches or so isnt it?" Ha bloody ha.

And tonight she kept on about 'long term compatibility'..but she did say hers wasnt a universal female preference.. so thats something I guess..

Just a point of order but when you say 'girth' I think you mean 'width'- and 2 inches width on your ex is way above average girth- so in certain positions, from what I have read, that would make intercouse satisfying for you.

I do have a demon though- thats true- put there by the girls I have met- I need someone to evict him...

[Cece.dedesl]

Maybe I'm wording it wrong. Circumference was 2 inches? As in a tape measure wrapped around it was 2".

Either way, just keep trying Jessie. You seem like such a nice person and your so willing to please your partner. I think you'd be a great catch if you could just accept yourself and not view yourself as inadequate.

[Jessie]

Ceci- are you sure he was only 2 around?

im afraid guys like me obsess over details like this but that would be like a marker pen- that cannot be right surely?

I mean the average range hard for a white guy is 4.7-5.3 with the average about 5 for girth.

So I know Im skinny and have been told so by partners.

Im a bit sick of being told I'm nice. (no offence- I appreciate your comment). I have been told that by girls all my life- it DOES NOT make me a catch it seems.

Sorry Im light headed and probably typing total BS right now.

[Cece.dedesl]

To give you a visual, he was about as thick as my thumb. I don't mean that in a derogatory way at all. Just want you to be able to understand his size. That was the best way I could think of to get it across.

If you take nice, combine it with your willingness to please and add a little confidence you are a catch. I know you're not in a place to accept compliments right now but, you do have a lot to offer.

*just measured my thumb, 2 1/4 inches in circumference*

Surely, 5" in girth as in wide can't be right! Maybe 5" circumference maybe.

[Jessie]

Ceci- fair enough then- its to my shame that his misfortune gives me a lift... knowing there is a guy who is even thinner then me- jeez maybe 'im not so nice eh?

I want to accept what you are saying truly... but... I have to say it... you are a remarkable girl Ceci:

You were willing to have a sexual relationship with a disabled person and someone who's penis was similar to an adults finger.

Im not denigrating the disabled (hell I am kinda disabled too!) nor a guy with a smaller dick (ditto) but thats very commendable of you but its also astonishingly rare. Like 1 in 1000's rare.

So I have to find someone I like, and that likes me AND that is willing to be utterly non judgmental about body parts and/or sexual preferences.

So i could go on a 1000 dates and not meet someone like you (WITH mutual attraction).

Sorry, I have just read a american sexologist called Dr Sonjia, who did a survey of her city asking women if they would sleep with a small dicked guy- not a single one said yes.

I know I can attract women once they talk to me- hell I got 2 offers from the speed dating scheme (I may have had more- they only tell you the cross matches). But sooner or later they are going to find out.

[Cece.dedesl]

Just so you know. Girth does mean circumference, not width. I just looked it up on dictionary.com. I think you are misunderstanding the averages in that area.

girth[ gurth ]

noun

1. the measure around anything; circumference.

Media, literature and more importantly porn has put such an emphasis on large penises that women are somewhat programmed to think that's what they want. In reality, they really want a satisfying sexual relationship.

I don't think I'm the exception to the rule. I've never had a friend complain about penis size. What I do hear is complaints about the lack of foreplay or lack of sexual satisfaction. I think you guys get that confused.

I really hope you won't give up. You are not a bad guy for feeling a bit better about your measurements because of what I detailed. It's human nature to compare. At least this time it's not making you feel bad.

[Jessie]

Trust me Ceci- I am a walking encyclopaedia on the subject.

A scientist averaged out all the studies over the past 40 yeears and got 4.7-5.3 inches girth and 5.5-6.2 inches length.

And the UCLA study said 84% of women are happy with their partners size because 84% of men are average or large. (population distribution)

And as small men are so shy women see a lot more of the 84% than the 16% 'small' guys

So its not surprising you havent heard too many female 'size' complaints because 1. we are fairly rare and 2. it makes females appear shallow/slutty so they fib a bit (although doesnt stop many other women for sure!)

Well thats my theory anyway.

ps and satisfaction is linked to fullness etc isnt it? thats what sexologists keep banging on about- and women generally...

(not you Ceci- I meant generally only)

[Jessie]

skynight,

Well maybe, but I think I would have really fallen for her- she was lovely- I could have kissed her forever-

If I had let it progress to sex?... - and when we arranged for her to come over on Wed, it was after lots of kissing but before our size conversation- I think she was going to stay over- (not sure)

If she dumped me AFTER we had sex it would have been obvious why and I would have gone round the twist...

And I dont want to 'trick' someone into liking me. Or to make it difficult to dump me due to feelings or loyalty.

Shit thats what my last girlfriend did- it took her ages to dump me cos she loved me even though she hated my dick- I DONT want a repeat of that thanks.

ps I get what you mean though about the insecurity- gotta hide that I know... I know.

[lifeless existence]

Media, literature and more importantly porn has put such an emphasis on large penises that women are somewhat programmed to think that's what they want. In reality, they really want a satisfying sexual relationship.

It doesn't matter if they decided on their own or were programmed to be that way. The bottom line is, most of them are that way and it's the end of the road for guys like us. It's literally easier to find a needle in a haystack than it is to find a woman who will accept a smaller than average penis.

So its not surprising you havent heard too many female 'size' complaints because 1. we are fairly rare and 2. it makes females appear shallow/slutty so they fib a bit (although doesnt stop many other women for sure!)

Bingo.

Jessie, I'm sick over what happened to you. I'm sorry that I encouraged you to see her again.

[Notdoneyet]

I still say you guys who are reluctant to even give dating a try because of this deformity are shooting yourself in the foot.

When all marriages are taken into account, half of them fail in todays world simply because of differences in lifestyles.

This is coming from a guy who lived in a failed marriage for longtime, but there's no way that I would let it keep me from living, now.

Not all dates are headed for matrimony, but that's no reason to not have them.

Who know? Maybe if yo give it a try, you may run into the "rare" gal who is attuned to her body in such a way that she can

make do with anything she is offered. It's a certainty that nothing attempted, is nothing gained.

[Jessie]

Hey LE,

Dont say that- I have had a shit day today sure- had to take day off in fact but last sunday I was one of the happiest guys on the planet- even if it only lasted a few hours.

I have spent all day thinking about this. Im gonna wait till my depression passes completely and then have another go at speed dating with my mate (he didnt get anywhere either).

Im going to only tick women who are as conventionally unattractive as possible. My logic is:

1. They will be less judgmental about deformities etc

2. If they do reject me it wont hurt as much as I wont be so into them.

This wil also give me an indication of whether Im wasting my time. I am gonna force myself to do this 3 times over the next year.

If I get rejected all 3 times I will know I gave it a good shot but will refrain from any more humiliation.

Like Malign said- there are other ways to relate to humans- I have to get rid of this fairy tale fantasy crap- not everybody gets the same experiences in life.

I daresay I have had a better run for my money than say, a Cambodian who starved to death at the age of 3 etc.

[Jessie]

Sorry- I just read back that post- didnt mean to sound like a jerk about attractive or unattractive women- I meant those that may not match societies ideals and may have more empathy.

Basically to avoid anyone 'conventionally' attractive or that I might be attracted to- cos thats where the pain comes in I think.

[lifeless existence]

I still say you guys who are reluctant to even give dating a try because of this deformity are shooting yourself in the foot.

When all marriages are taken into account, half of them fail in todays world simply because of differences in lifestyles.

This is coming from a guy who lived in a failed marriage for longtime, but there's no way that I would let it keep me from living, now.

Not all dates are headed for matrimony, but that's no reason to not have them.

Who know? Maybe if yo give it a try, you may run into the "rare" gal who is attuned to her body in such a way that she can

make do with anything she is offered. It's a certainty that nothing attempted, is nothing gained.

I agree with all of this. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from trying. Even though I think it's nearly impossible to find one of these women, I would try too if I could. I'm not letting my penis size stop me from trying. I'm just so screwed up in other areas that no woman would ever have anything to do with me.

[lifeless existence]

Like Malign said- there are other ways to relate to humans- I have to get rid of this fairy tale fantasy crap- not everybody gets the same experiences in life.

What we want in life isn't fairy tale fantasy crap. That's what makes it so much worse. We look around and see that almost all the other guys have someone and we don't. If it was just fantasy crap, all those other guys would be alone too. Having contact isn't a fairy tale, it's a basic human need, and ours isn't being met.

[Cece.dedesl]

Jessie, I'm glad you've decided to keep trying although, putting a year's timeline on it is unrealistic.

It takes a lot of dates to find the right person. With every date and every relationship we learn to better recognize what we need from a relationship and can get better at choosing people to date.

I look at dating as a sport. The first couple of years you suck but with more practicing and playing time, you slowly improve and become an effective player. Sure, there are natural talents out there who excel faster but that's not the norm.

[Jessie]

Hi Ceci,

I think dating wise I'm ok- I mean Im not great at it but Im a presentable enough to get a 1st date- I have had 4 proper girl friends before and obviously I just had a date this sunday gone.

I have tried a few times 'cold' before but didn't get anywhere- the speed dating thing is perfect for someone like me- Im lucky to have a friend to support me too in coming with me.

Its a case of what happens when they learn of my issue- and I have taken stock of my life.

I just cannot bear endless rejection and humiliation when they see it- the look in their eyes, the having to hide their feelings/disappointment, them 'trying' to overlook the issue- I cant bear it.

Maybe it makes me weak- I dunno- but I have to consider my mental health- the rejection has made me very low over the years and the stress of the past week has been enormous.

I think I have a sensible approach- Ive set myself a goal- its not about getting married- its a case of are they willing to accept me- or not- in terms of sex.

I know you say it will happen eventually (be accepted by someone) but when does one really say enoughs enough? 5, 10, 15, 20?, 150? Im just not built for that.

And Im a pretty astute guy- you know I have done my research- all those female blogs? and Dr Sonjyja? "not a single one", and today my daily fishing tour dug up this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lpf-jEwyJ0

watch the 8 minute mark when she talks about how it does matter and 'generally bigger is better" and women ("99%) are much more attracted to 8 inches than 5 inches and how they judge men on this.

THEN she says how men need to be confident or at least pretend to be--- WTF!! how could any small man be confident after what she's just said!!

[lifeless existence]

Ugh.

[Jessie]

yeah- and see how earnest and well meaning she is. Reminded me of my 3rd gf a bit... sigh

by the way she has posted umpteen vids on a variety of topics- this is the only sex related one.

So you have an articulate, reasonably attractive girl giving her lowdown. "talking to other women and being a woman myself"

She says 99% and I think shes spot on- so I need to find a Ceci or an Irma or just accept my fate.

The things I've picked up from the CBT stuff is about avoiding shame though.

So its not our fault this has happened to us- we mustn't let people shame us- at the same time we have to accept others views, preferences and aversions and just get on with it.

And I guess there are some positives- no STD's, no petty relationship squabbles. I get to watch any TV I like etc.

And my family are great about it too- thats a big help- Im super lucky there actually.

[Cece.dedesl]

What I heard was if a man was wearing a magical sign disclosing his penis size, a woman would 99% of the time be drawn to the man with the larger penis but that was based on no interaction. She also stated that it's not a determining factor if a connection is made.

We've discussed that the media, literature and porn has created a certain physical picture of satisfaction but it can't and will never be able to describe or understand the emotional response women experience. Which truly makes a sexual experience the most satisfying for a woman.

Her comment about confidence is what we've been talking about a lot in this forum. Men who view themselves as inadequate have a tendency to let it destroy their confidence and let their penis rule their lives or lack of one. Women want a confident man. If you're confident in yourself, we'll see it, flaws and all.

[Jessie]

Ceci- yes I agree she did say that other factors come into play but she did keep contradicting herself

eg1 we all have different sizes, but saying that "bigger is better because you feel more"..etc

eg2 sizes need to match but on the other hand 99%....etc

her text was full of point, counter-point, point, counter-point.

Which is what I have had most of my adult life. That double speak which plays tricks with your mind

Classic: "Oh size doesnt matter... unless its too small" (usually said by women without a hint of irony)

I get that a smelly, arrogant, ugly guy with 8 will not be as attractive as a handsome, clean guy with 5 (for many women at least)

But for her to admit that 99% of women would prefer 8 to 5, all other things being equal, rather pisses on the "women dont care", "people have different preferences" line.

And Imagine how I feel? I dont even meet her example of an under endowed guy of 5"!

I wonder how my confidence would soar, if I were naked in front of her stare?

I view myself as inadequate because others do- if others change their opinion of me then my self esteem would change instantly.

This is the causation.

When I was younger with my 1st gf I assumed (because I didnt have erection or premature problems) that I was an adequate virile guy.

I guess I believed the 'size didnt matter' stuff taught at school- I knew I was undersized but was told "no girl would care"

The women in my life taught me otherwise- and sent me on this journey of self loathing.

And when the net became available I researched it to try and prove them wrong- but I was so naive- they were right all along.

I know the confidence thing is a vicious cycle but my point remains- having watched that video- as a guy less than her 'lower' example how does one have a shred of confidence?

Ceci, imagine if you had a secret shameful deformity, say you had, I dunno, 2 vaginas (it does happen sometimes), then how confident would you feel going on a date?

ps Im not saying anyone with a birth defect should be ashamed- I meant they might feel ashamed and society may judge it shameful.

[jk1972]

I still say you guys who are reluctant to even give dating a try because of this deformity are shooting yourself in the foot.

When all marriages are taken into account, half of them fail in todays world simply because of differences in lifestyles.

This is coming from a guy who lived in a failed marriage for longtime, but there's no way that I would let it keep me from living, now.

Not all dates are headed for matrimony, but that's no reason to not have them.

Who know? Maybe if yo give it a try, you may run into the "rare" gal who is attuned to her body in such a way that she can

make do with anything she is offered. It's a certainty that nothing attempted, is nothing gained.

After years of rejection and only having negative experiences how can a male have any confidence with females? I have to compete againt other males who are far more conf indent and experience then I am. They know they can please a female they it did it in the past. The older we get teh worse it gets even if somehow we find a female who doesn't care about size there is still the question of experience. Based on studies I seen most females who are willing to settle for a male with a small penis who only do so if she is not his first

Not only do I have to find a female who is willing to overlook that I have a Small penis she also has to be willing to train me.

[jk1972]

Her comment about confidence is what we've been talking about a lot in this forum. Men who view themselves as inadequate have a tendency to let it destroy their confidence and let their penis rule their lives or lack of one. Women want a confident man. If you're confident in yourself, we'll see it, flaws and all.

How can someone have confidence when all they know is failure?