So sorry

[malign]

However, I'm still filing the phrase "temporary immaturity" away for future use. :-)

[Luna-]

"Your Honour, when I rear-ended that car, I was under the influence of temporary immaturity!"

[soregretful]

What it is all about guys, is that I did anything at all. It didn't seem to matter much when I was younger, but it does now.

Of course I want to be happy again. I am trying to surround myself with loved ones and dating, but I feel too guilty to even be around them.

One day, I would like to be a father, and that day can be very close if I want it to be. I am in a loving relationship and I am trying to work through these memories to be more intimate. The therapist that told me 5% has me all freaked out.

Yeah, the only way out of this hole would be to never have stepped in it. That is all I can say. It is like if you accidentally kill someone drunk driving...you may not have meant to do it, but now you have to live with taking away someone's life. That is the kind of guilt I feel. I have to have it the rest of my life and nothing I can do can take it away. So how on Earth am I supposed to feel better when the damage is done? I have to live my whole life knowing that I used images of kids (if I did that much). That makes me sick. Why did I do this? Did I think that it would never catch up to me?

I don't know how to dig out, and I know someone is going give me the metaphor that I just need to start shoveling, but that is just it, I don't know where to start.

[malign]

"I have to have it [guilt] the rest of my life and nothing I can do can take it away."

Would that be true of the person who killed someone by accident, even? They might not be able to change the actions, but surely even a grieving parent doesn't spend every moment of the rest of their lives actively hurting. They don't forget, but it doesn't hurt the same forever.

And that's if someone had died. This is a great example of a "catastrophizing" thought. How do you know, now, what you have to have for the rest of your life? Can you change the second half to "nothing I can do that I know about at the moment ..."? Absolute statements are never true. {Yes, that was a joke.}

Have you ever encountered a hole, in real life, that you could step in but never step out of?

I also want to point out that we are asking you a lot of questions, but few of them are rhetorical: they have answers. A lot of the questions you're asking yourself don't, such as, "Why did I do this?" or "How can I possibly ever get better?" They're a way to coerce yourself, psychologically, emotionally, without examining the question at all, logically. For instance, my second example might sound like a genuine request for options, except that the "possibly ever" front-load it with disbelief before anyone has a chance to answer.

It's clear you don't know where to start shoveling, which is why I didn't say that. What we're trying to point you to, each of us in our different ways, is that it's your thinking that needs to be examined. "It didn't seem to matter much when I was younger, but it does now." So, it sounds like we agree: it's not what you did, but the fact that it matters to you now, that's important. So, clearly, the place to attack it is, why does it matter, and why did that change?

[Sissagwaad]

ps. we're not asking, or needing to know.

Were gifting you questions. What you do is up to you.

[soregretful]

I agree with you....saying never shuts my mind down to all other possible alternatives. Maybe why this bothers me so much know if because I don't know the avenues "right now" to make these thought not bombard me every day, but that doesn't mean I can't find a way. I also know that God wants me to be everything that I can, despite my flaws, including a father. That is why I am trying to go for this relationship and maybe one day this will just phase itself away. The 5% thing does freak me out kinda, and like I had said, if I end up not being able to consummate a marriage, one life ruined will turn into two.

[Sissagwaad]

I agree with you....saying never shuts my mind down to all other possible alternatives. Maybe why this bothers me so much know if because I don't know the avenues "right now" to make these thought not bombard me every day, but that doesn't mean I can't find a way.

Sounds like you 'have the door open a crack'

Whatchawaiting for? Begin the studies, and if you are ardent enough a student,

there simply will not be any room for 'other thoughts.'

I also know that God wants me to be everything that I can, despite my flaws, including a father.

Whether or not you become a father, in due time. Right now what about being the ardent student?

That is why I am trying to go for this relationship and maybe one day this will just phase itself away.

The 5% thing does freak me out kinda, and like I had said, if I end up not being able to consummate a marriage, one life ruined will turn into two. pardon?? ??

what usefulness is this last paragraph/thinking? What's going on that has you believing it is helpful to catastrophize, dramatize, and carry such a black cloud around with everything you do??

[soregretful]

I have the door open a crack, but how long will it take to get through? I still just want to die of embarassment every day. I am afraid that if I do consider myself worthy to live one day, it will be too late.

Sissa,

What's going on is this relationship I guess. I don't know why I was attacked in the middle of it and the therapist saying 5% really has me bummin. Life just isn't worth much to me right now.

[Musicman]

I don't know why I was attacked in the middle of it and the therapist saying 5% really has me bummin. Life just isn't worth much to me right now.

Your THERAPIST is helping to make you depressed. And why are you still seeing him? You once stated that you joined these forums for "therapy between therapy." What you are receiving from your therapist is sheer crap. The "5%" thing in no way holds true. If you are committed to your relationship and to having children, there is no reason to believe that you won't have kids. I strongly suggest you find a new therapist ASAP.

[Sissagwaad]

I have the door open a crack, but how long will it take to get through?

Why not open it more then?

I still just want to die of embarassment every day.

Is that useful to tell yourself that, over and over again?

I am afraid that if I do consider myself worthy to live one day, it will be too late.

Why are you delaying learning what you have to learn then, and applying yourself.

All i seem to see is excuses, but no actual working towards anything much. i calls it as i see it.

Sissa,

What's going on is this relationship I guess. yes, how you relate to what others say, what you think they will say, respond etc etc. and how you relate to this pseudo therapist you mentionI don't know why I was attacked in the middle of it and the therapist saying 5% really has me bummin. Life just isn't worth much to me right now.

Wow, Another useful assessment, devaluation of ones present.

Any more ideas?

[soregretful]

Well,

Had a nice date. Learned about meridian tapping a little more. Still feel extremely guilty. This is one of those things I guess I will never forget as long as I live. Oh well.

Good kiss tonight though!

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

I'm glad you enjoyed your date, sr. :-)

S.

[soregretful]

I did, S.

As much as I could. I just hope God forgives me enough to take away these memories and live in peace. I am in love with this girl. I am just scared each day I wake up will be more and more guilt. I want her to be the core of my family, but I still feel like I don't deserve her.

[Sissagwaad]

Well,

Had a nice date. Learned about meridian tapping a little more. Still feel extremely guilty. This is one of those things I guess I will never forget as long as I live. Oh well.

Good kiss tonight though!

how cool congratulations, for choosing to pleasure yourself so.

I trust you will come to understand and to appreciate, more and more about how gifted you are, and how you and your higher power, are invincable.

for example, i am in considerable pain from an absessing tooth extraction, however, I am not choosing to suffer....Does that make any sense to you?

I am focused elsewheres, on the pleasure I choose in "delighting myself' in all the other things I could, and choose to....i'm alive, the rain has stopped, i have a fresh coffee, and food, (like so many are hungry, homeless, jobless, blind, etc, etc) so much to be grateful, (resultingly happy about.) I could be focused instead, and thusly free....freedom is a two sided coin, on the otherside is written responsibility, so 'spend it wisely'

...focused instead on all i've lost, or failed at, and because i make that up as 'bad', rather than useful steps along the way that have been there for me, from a loving God, to grow and to learn, day by day, of my 'freedom/responsibility' abundant currency.

I have had many intense, meaningful relationships since the divorce from the mother of my 2 children. One, from a severe alcoholic beginning chose a path of a Crisis Worker, another a financial consultant/licensed NLP/Reikkii/EFT, who introduced me to many things including support for an earlier dingbat that had me investigated by police for her complaint of my raping her. $5,000 later I am now more educated, and grateful for all these stimulating people each on their own learning path, who i have come to value as meaningful and useful. I hope you too will come to learn to appreciate the value in all that comes to you, as given you by a God that clearly loves and trusts you in giving you these opportunities for growth, towards learning to authentically love yourself, and a goodly purpose for everything that stimulates you along your path. love and hugs

ps, on your concern about God forgiving you. What is forgiveness? Isn't it a gift we give ourselves? a letting go of a perceived control something or someone has, and a giving oneself back their freedom?

Why would God, in his infinate wisdom, choose to hold onto an idea of unforgiviness, and limit himself from continuing to love and to accept you as his son?

[Sissagwaad]

I would suggest considering 'hoping for God to intervene somehow, to forcefully 'change' ones choice and flavor of memories,

is not a particularly useful way to 'set-oneself up' Are we not Indirectly imagining and making 'real' oneself,

as a rather 'helpless-victim.'

- - - - - -Is this what you want?

Wouldn't inviting, asking, for Him to continue, being constantly by ones-side,

even though we've forgotten this from time to time, when we've stepped away from our intended path,

and awareness of where we're truly wanting and taking ourself? Inviting, and thanking him for continuing,

and for the gift of forgiveness, (rather than imagining Him so dumb as to require our pleadings to forgive us?)

[soregretful]

I just want this to go away from conscious. I have a lot around me and a girl I love, but I just feel that I am totally undeserving. Allowing myself to take pleasure in life is just living pretend happiness but really feeling low. I guess that can be as good as it is for now.

And I want an honest answer if you feel you have one....do you think I can overcome this in a few months? I already know what I believe, I just want to see what anyone else thinks. Am I doing the right treatment? Not because I am obsessing, just because I am trying my damndest to get better. And I don't want to hear that if you have your answer, you know the answer. I am new to having mental health issues and wonder if I am going the right way.

SR

[Sissagwaad]

I just want this to go away from conscious. I have a lot around me and a girl I love, but I just feel that I am totally undeserving. Allowing myself to take pleasure in life is just living pretend happiness but really feeling low. I guess that can be as good as it is for now.

And I want an honest answer if you feel you have one....do you think I can overcome this in a few months? I already know what I believe, I just want to see what anyone else thinks. Am I doing the right treatment? Not because I am obsessing, just because I am trying my damndest to get better. And I don't want to hear that if you have your answer, you know the answer. I am new to having mental health issues and wonder if I am going the right way.

SR

I'm only guessing, clearly you are in denial about obsessing.

I'm guessing, you're 'imagening,' 'making-up,' a need that you 'have to,' or 'need to' know what others think.

The fact is it doesn't matter. That you are obsessing that what others think is an important determinate in what you will decide to do, thought wise, action wise, from moment to moment, is absurd.....lest you want to continue embracing being victim instead of creator of your own version of life.

There is no right, or wrong way my friend. There are ways that result in your feeling and experiencing self-empowerment, and ways that serve to remain pretending one is a helpless victim.

You are not.

We each continue to think the thoughts, and have the emotional result/feelings, because of a belief, at some level, that is is useful for our survival. Study and become a student of SBR

hugs:)

[soregretful]

That's just it....I am NOT in denial. I admit I am obsessing. I am obsessing because I crapped on the rest of my life without even realizing it and am wondering if every day with be this mentally painful. I only ask what others think because maybe by the grace of God someone has heard of this before or had this problem. So, yes.....I am obsessing. NO DENYING IT!! Yeah, I am, because I have this stupid thought from years past in my head and I am not sure what it will take to ever be happy again. No fair saying be happy...doesn't quite work so easily.

I am obsessed with finding an answer because I am tired of life kicking my ass everyday. It sucks. For something that happened a while back. It isn't fair because I gave and gave and gave to others and the moment I try to make for myself, this happens. Am I obssessing....yeah. Do I know how to stop...no! I feel like this is going to follow me the rest of my life. So if you think I am denying I have a problem or obsessing, you are clearly wrong because that is why I came here in the first place...to get help with this problem. Walking a day in my shoes would be no fun, but maybe it would help people understand what I am going through. I am not just trying to get pity. I am trying to get better. I am a little frustrated that I am being told I am feeling sorry for myself and beating myself up....I am on here to try to learn how to STOP doing those things, if that is in fact what I am doing.

[Sissagwaad]

ok, from the top of your response;

"That's just it....I am NOT in denial. I admit I am obsessing. I am obsessing because I crapped on the rest of my life"

Isn't that denial about 'the rest of your life' not being entirely up to you?

Secondly: "I am not sure what it will take to ever be happy again. No fair saying be happy...doesn't quite work so easily"

Are you not denying it can be,...simply, and nothing more than a choice?

For those that, like most, don't know how to simply turn on the light switch, from darkness to lightness,

there is the Option Dialogue Process.

Is it useful or accurate to ignore the tools, and insist one is not in denial about their being in charge of whether one applies and uses the tools or not?

If you are authentic in "I am obsessed with finding an answer because I am tired of life kicking my ass everyday" Then, as in Gerry McGuire form, 'show me the money.' I'm trusting you're referring to finding answers and understanding of how you are ultimately the one in charge and entirely free to choose to change how you operate yourself, and experience everything.

"I am on here to try to learn how to STOP doing those things, if that is in fact what I am doing"

Is that what you are doing? Focused on studying, learning, ie discovering and choosing new and better ways of thinking, framing, everything?

I believe the majority of followers are like me in celebrating, if in fact this is so.

It is you alone though, that makes it so. Just like the captain and his crew of the SS Enterprise. hugs

[IrmaJean]

What is your fear in this, SR? Just something to think about. I would recommend that you continue talking about your feelings, fears, concerns and anxieties in therapy.

[soregretful]

Doesn't it seem like just for a moment that what I did or whatever may be an awfully hard thing to live with the rest of my life? Doesn't it seem like something I am genuinely regretting every day? Like I said, I hurt no one but myself. I have no fear, just horrible guilt and regret.

Sissa, you can think it is as easy as flicking on a switch, but that is you. You have not been in my situation and really have no idea how horrible I feel. Do you think I just come on here and whine to everyone to get attention? I am fighting for my life here and am a little saddened that you keep poking fun at me. I have been nothing but genuine, open and honest about what I did and my regret and you just think I am feeling sorry for myself. It is not as simple as just rejoicing in the birds singing or sniffing the fresh air, like you seem to suggest to me. I did something I am going to regret the rest of my life. I came on here for help, not criticism. If I have to look somewhere else, I will.

Thanks for your support,

SR

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

Sr, it might be an impossible idea, but how do you feel about getting a break from this today? Can you make an effort to think of the good time you had yesterday and about the next time you meet your girlfriend instead of arguing your case here? Or plant something? Draw something? Bake something?

I have the impression the same misunderstandings keep happening in here over and over and they upset you. And I think they do that because there's not enough flexibility in the communication.

I've heard about twice before that you don't like to be told that you're beating yourself up like you did that for the fun of it. I'm still hearing and respecting it and I still think it's dangerous to tell people they feel bad because they want to.

The important bit of Sissas message is a different one in my opinion, though. I couldn't stand all the choice-talk if I were you, but it's true that your way of thinking can be changed and it is worth all the effort to try and give you power over the way your mind goes. I think that is where the consense is.

I also think I might be talking rubbish now.

S.

[soregretful]

I am not trying to hurt anyone's feelings....I AM LOOKING FOR HELP!!

Really, guys, it HURTS when people say I am beating myself up because I am trying to get help. It HURTS when people say I am having a pity party because I do not want to feel sorry for myself or want anyone else to.

It takes everything I have to get through a day. I have had a knife to my stomach a few times, daring myself to push it in. But I don't because I am thinking that if I keep looking someone will help me find what I need to know.

I am not sure anyone can help me but me. I just don't know how.

I will take a break from this because I don't want to stir the pot, but when people say not trying or pity party it is like the therapist that said 5%.

Consider this my last post for a while. I AM NOT SURE how to find any answers or help. I am sorry to have wasted your time.

I sense that people are getting a little tired of me.

[Sissagwaad]

Doesn't it seem like just for a moment that what I did or whatever may be an awfully hard thing to live with the rest of my life? Doesn't it seem like something I am genuinely regretting every day? Like I said, I hurt no one but myself. I have no fear, just horrible guilt and regret.

Sissa, you can think it is as easy as flicking on a switch, but that is you. You have not been in my situation and really have no idea how horrible I feel. Do you think I just come on here and whine to everyone to get attention? I am fighting for my life here and am a little saddened that you keep poking fun at me. I have been nothing but genuine, open and honest about what I did and my regret and you just think I am feeling sorry for myself. It is not as simple as just rejoicing in the birds singing or sniffing the fresh air, like you seem to suggest to me. I did something I am going to regret the rest of my life. I came on here for help, not criticism. If I have to look somewhere else, I will.

Thanks for your support,

SR

I'm not aware of any criticism. It is your life, how you choose to experience it. I merely invite you to explore and to realize your freedom of choice, and learn to become less victimized by beliefs you've picked up along the way as to how to best take care of yourself, that when examined, you may wish to drop, alter, change, or drop altogether. Whether you do or not is none of my business.

If you insist on not looking into your options regarding the quality of self-talk you admit to obsessing about, that too is your business. Turning on or off a method of processing anything may be difficult, but it needen't be complicated......Whatevers

ps. Life is an adventure, Whether we enjoy it or not, choice.

I am truly thankful for stimulating us with yours. hugs, and love, sincerely:)

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

"escalate" was the word I was looking for earlier.

sr, I don't want you to leave this place hurt.

I understand your feelings though, and I can easily see why you're hurt.

I told you I see no pity party. That's because there is none.

The trick is.. erm... to believe me.

I'm sorry if I sounded like I was tired of you, I'm not.

I'm tired. Apart from that, I'm also tired of this same conflict breaking out again and again and my inability to do anything about it, because I don't know how to without escalation. I'm not tired of you, I'm tired of never being able to change anything.

I think it's good you voiced your feelings about this again and rest assured that you're not capable of wasting my time, even if you tried very hard.

S.

PS I suggested that you try to take a break from this, because I genuinely believed it could make you feel better.