memories

[Endlessnight]

I'm sorry I haven't replied to anyone's post. Sometimes, actually many times I feel unable to, i'm not sure why... though I know writing on here (about my problems) takes a lot out of me.

I do want you all to know that I appreciate your feedback and I don't think i'll ever be able to really show you how grateful I am for your support and concern. I hope and pray that each of us can find the place of peace and place of silence that I know I for one want very much. ((((hugs))))

[LaLa]

I'm sorry I haven't replied to anyone's post. Sometimes, actually many times I feel unable to, i'm not sure why...

Don't feel sorry . I know this feeling, although my reasons may be different, and I suppose all of us have sometimes a time when we don't want to write (here or anywhere)... :(

I don't think i'll ever be able to really show you how grateful I am for your support and concern.

I can feel you are, M. ...

(((Hugs))) :-)

[Endlessnight]

LaLa, your kindness made me cry. Thank you for being my friend. ((((hugs))))

[Endlessnight]

...............

Edited September 6, 2011 by Endlessnight

[LaLa]

Thank you, M., for being my friend :)...

(I wasn’t here for a week because of vacation (as I’d ‘announced’ on my blog).)

I was mostly writing (in my post here) about ‘being good’ and your reply is focused on pretending and hiding your true feelings. I think your thoughts about it are mostly related to what is often said: We should not pretend, we should not ‘wear a mask’, we should be ‘true’, ‘open’, ... Well, this opinion has surely its positive aspects, but at the same time, it is not entirely/always true. BTW, I had some discussions about pretending and lying / hiding true feelings also with my therapist and he also said it’s right to pretend when it’s better (than to be absolutely honest) and hide what we need to hide.

It seems your pretending has been somehow painful to you. I suppose probably because you hadn’t anybody to be ‘true’/‘you’ with – that was the problem, not that you pretended in general. We all need somebody we can trust, at least in some context, so that we can disclose our true feelings and some of our deepest thoughts to him/her (I mean it doesn’t have to be one person, we can have a few and reveal a different ‘subset’ of feelings and thoughts to each of them). But except for being with this person (/ these people), it is OK to hide our feelings, personal problems, fears, ... when we feel it’s better. I wouldn’t see it only as a fear of showing them your weakness. Couldn’t be that you’ve been also trying to ‘be good’ to them, not to cause problems, not to make situations more complicated? I think it’s normal and even suitable (maybe I should say ‘when it doesn’t go behind some extent’) – the problem is that it’s too hard for somebody who cannot ‘compensate’ for these situations by being open and honest with at least one close person. And it’s your case. Or, better; it used to be, as now you are honest here with us .

[Endlessnight]

..........

Edited September 7, 2011 by Endlessnight

[IrmaJean]

I'm sorry I missed seeing your poem, M.

There are times when I feel a part of myself inside that I want to express and reach others with...This self-expression feels very good, connecting with my deepest self...and this brings me such joy that I want to share. So I take a risk and put my heart out there for others to see. When this is met by silence it can feel as if my heart went unheard and that my gentle parts are unwanted...This is often when I'll delete a heartfelt expression. I don't know if any of that matches for you, M. I've been trying to accept and feel my own gifts and know that this beauty is mine.

What do you think, M?

I'd love to read your poetry, if you are willing to share again some time. Take care.

[LaLa]

I'm happy to see you back on the forum again!

Maybe you could post your poem on your blog? I'd love to read it, too!

[Endlessnight]

IrmaJean, everything you wrote I feel applies to me. You understand so well. Thank you.

LaLa - I don't know how it is but you and IJ seem to see into my deepest self, even better than I do. When I look at myself why do I see no one?

It seems your pretending has been somehow painful to you. I suppose probably because you hadn’t anybody to be ‘true’/‘you’ with – that was the problem, not that you pretended in general. We all need somebody we can trust, at least in some context, so that we can disclose our true feelings and some of our deepest thoughts to him/her

again you are right. My pretending/wearing a mask has and is very painful to me. There have been a couple of people in the past that I felt I could show a part of the real me to, but they betrayed my trust.

I do not have anyone in my life that I can share anything with, but yes, I do have this forum and all of you, my e-friends. and though many of the things I write I feel ashamed of afterwards, I know I have needed to say them, to let them out.

I know that sometimes it is better that we hide what we are feeling in order to not hurt or cause pain to someone else, but my hiding of my feelings, of who I am has left me a nobody. I've worn this mask for so long that the real me has been lost. I have no identity. I don't know who or what I am.

[LaLa]

I have an idea: Maybe you could try to describe "the mask" first. How is M. in the eyes of people who know her in person? Try to describe her in detail (here or on your blog). And then, in the next step, you could try to find out what doesn't feel "true" for you. That would allow you at least, for the beginning, to define what you are not. Maybe you'll even discover that some of what others can see is true, is part of your identity.

What do you think?

[Endlessnight]

LaLa, since I read your post I have been trying to see myself as others do, but I honestly don't know how other people see me. Everytime I try to write something down all I can think of are the negative things I don't like about myself. There are three me's. The young girl that is waiting to go home, the 55 year old woman who feels lost and the 'me' that other people see, the one that wears the mask.

Please Hear What I'm Not Saying

Don't be fooled by me.

Don't be fooled by the face I wear.

For I wear a mask, a thousand masks,

masks that I'm afraid to take off,

and none of them is me.

Pretending is an art that's second nature to me,

but don't be fooled.

For God's sake don't be fooled.

I give you the impression that I'm secure,

that confidence is my name and coolness is my game,

and the water's calm and I'm in command,

and that I need no one.

But don't believe me.

My surface may seem smooth buy my surface

is my mask, ever-varying and ever-concealing.

Beneath lies no complacence.

Beneath lies confusion and fear and Aloneness. But I hide this. I don't want anybody to know it.

Jill Zevallos-Solak

[LaLa]

M., It's so nice to see how your post proves that a poem can say much more that one thinks (s)he's able to tell by other words! (My recent poem on my blog proves the same, too ...) It seems to me you felt unable to answer my question, but then you answered it by the poem.

So... from the description of the mask in the poem, people may see you as secure, confident, 'cool', calm, in command, complacent. (Do you agree?) And you're not . This all is related to self-esteem... So it means that others can't see your low self-esteem - it surely brings you an advantage as it's easier to live not showing others how vulnerable you are, how low your meaning about yourself is. I think you should acknowledge and thank yourself ('your mask') for protecting you this way. I don't say it's ideal, of course - ideal would be not having such a low self-esteem and not needing to hide so much! But... I think, based on my experiences from this community, that firstly it would be good to become grateful to your ability to pretend for what it has done for you (think about the positives). Then you can start to 'criticise' it - to identify what was wrong. For instance: Do you suppose that showing others how desperate, confused, alone, ... you have been would help you? Would it change your situation for better - would they help you to overcome your problems? I don't know, I just ask. I also wonder if blaming yourself for pretending means that you would prefer to be always open and honest and to show others all your fears and weaknesses. :confused: I suppose that not, yet you feel that the pretending has been somehow 'bad' as it has cost a lot of your energy and it has been confirming your loneliness and feeling of being uncomprehended. But it seems to me (maybe it's a misunderstanding, I'm sorry...) that you are focused on the mask and pretending as your big problem, although they are only a natural, logical consequence of the real/main problem - your lack of love (from your relatives) and your low self-esteem.

It seems to be a vicious circle as the pretending has drown you into the feeling of 'no identity' and with this feeling, you feel like you can't learn to love (/accept, like, be good to...) yourself. But I believe that it's not a vicious circle, that there is a way out. Nobody can give you an exact plan how to proceed, but... I see you're on the way and as far as you feel the need to succeed, you have a chance to do it ;-)... Keep going this way with us, keep searching for your own happiness!

Hugs,

L.

Edited September 13, 2011 by LaLa3

[LaLa]

Please Hear What I'm Not Saying

We hear you, M. ...

P.S.: Your poem led me to this website! http://www.poetrybycharlescfinn.com/ Interesting!

Edited September 13, 2011 by LaLa3
added PS

[IrmaJean]

Hmm...what do I see in you, M? I see a kind, caring, sensitive, gentle, thoughtful person who appreciates beauty. I've always sensed you as a similar soul. I know that you are also sad and lonely. Maybe you could challenge yourself to recognize some of your wonderful qualities. Genuine concern and compassion for one's fellowman can't be pretended, I don't think. You may put on a mask in an effort to protect your vulnerabilities, but please don't let it block you from seeing your light that shines within.

M is kind. How is M kind? By reaching out thoughtfully to others with her gentle spirit and offering encouraging words. You've done that for me many times. Can you see that in yourself? One other thought...once you are able to see this...can you also offer the same kindness to yourself? Could be comforting. Take care with you.

Edited September 13, 2011 by IrmaJean

[LaLa]

I agree with IJ , of course !

(The difference is that I was talking about how people who know you in person could see you and she was talking about us, here. If I was talking about us, I'd say the same as IJ .)

[Endlessnight]

LaLa, I agreee, sometimes poetry can say what we find it hard to put into words. (By the way your link is interesting also. Are they saying the poem was written by Charlie? Because when I google it I get a different author.)

So... from the description of the mask in the poem, people may see you as secure, confident, 'cool', calm, in command, complacent. (Do you agree?)

I don't agree completely with that because I don't think i've ever felt 'cool', calm, or in control of anything. I am clearer on what I have kept hidden inside though - the opposite of all that.

Do you suppose that showing others how desperate, confused, alone, ... you have been would help you? Would it change your situation for better - would they help you to overcome your problems?

No .From the start I hid what I was feeling about here (and other things) from others because I still had hope we would be going home, I didn't want to seem rude, and at that time I don't really think they would have understood how different the way of life was anyway and why I felt I didn't fit in. But even if they did, they would have said that my place was with my father and brother.

I think I remember once telling my mother on the phone (my letters were read before they were posted and if they contained anything my father didn't like they wouldn't be sent) and I think she told me there wasn't anything she could do from her end. (my memory is so bad i'm not even 100% sure this happened! and if I didn't tell any of my English relatives -why didn't I?? why didn't I reach out to someone, anyone? I am such a mystery even to myself. I don't know why I behave(ed) the way I do and did - and i hate myself for that)

I do know that my 'mask' was a kind of protection for me as you said, and I needed that, but now because i've been that 'mask' for so long I no don't know who I am or have an identity of my own.

I also wonder if blaming yourself for pretending means that you would prefer to be always open and honest and to show others all your fears and weaknesses.

Yes, I do wish I had been able to be honest and be 'me' and not this person that I was made to be by others, and by myself because i've never been able to let others see my true feelings - as though they were a weakness that I didn't want anyone to know about.

It seems to be a vicious circle as the pretending has drown you into the feeling of 'no identity' and with this feeling, you feel like you can't learn to love (/accept, like, be good to...) yourself.

LaLa, until two years ago I was in a kind of frozen state - I wasn't living, so when I 'woke up' from this state two years ago and found I was a middle aged woman that had wasted her life and I am still trying to come to terms with that and make sense out of the mess my life is.

But I believe that it's not a vicious circle, that there is a way out. Nobody can give you an exact plan how to proceed, but... I see you're on the way and as far as you feel the need to succeed, you have a chance to do it ;-).

I wish I could believe that too LaLa.

IrmaJean, I wish I could see myself the way you see me, I wish I could believe the kind things you say I am but i just don't see those things in me. I don't really know how to be kind to myself because this person that I am doesn't deserve kindness. She wants to run away from her life again and not be anyone.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Endlessnight

[LaLa]

Dear M.,

I supposed that my post would be, this time, "provoking" and that you would not agree with quite a lot of what I said. I hope it wasn't too unpleasant ...

I am such a mystery even to myself. I don't know why I behave(ed) the way I do and did - and i hate myself for that

Human behavior is sometimes/often a mystery. I know it's scary and upsetting to be a mystery to oneself :-(... but it's not a reason for self-hate. Look; there are many people who behave the way you don't understand - and do you hate them all?

Being here, on this forum, you've already understood some things about yourself and this process can continue and bring you more confidence, assurance. But don't forget nobody can ever understand oneself entirely. We have to accustom to some level of uncertainty. I see that your's is still too high, but I hope it will decrease...

So... when you try to think about her reasons: What did she have fear of? Why didn't she reach out to someone? I believe you can imagine some reasons. Wasn't her father, censoring even the letters for her own mom!!! (how awful!), 'an uncrossable barrier' in her eyes? Or...? When you shift the anger/hate aside, you might get some insights, understanding...

Yes, I do wish I had been able to be honest and be 'me' and not this person that I was made to be by others, and by myself because i've never been able to let others see my true feelings - as though they were a weakness that I didn't want anyone to know about.

This is something you can know about yourself! This is a strong wish that determines, in part, who you are now! You are a person who decided to find her identity, to be honest, not to fear to show her weaknesses anymore, ... - I know it can't be done 'at once', 'in a moment', but... I think it's good to keep strong this feeling of determination to be yourself and not to let others to 'make/form' you anymore. What do you think ?

I just don't see those things in me. I don't really know how to be kind to myself because this person that I am doesn't deserve kindness.

Firstly, just believe that we can see them and that we know you deserve kindness. Can you ;-)?

She wants to run away from her life again and not be anyone.

Hey, look what I've written some lines above! ;-) Keep the feeling you want to fight, to search for yourself, for the "you" that you'll be able to like and to be kind to!!

I know; moments when we feel like wanting to run away from our lives come sometimes :-(. But, please, don't stop believing that those are only temporary moments/periods of time!

What about the memory of the flowers you received in the end of the previous school year? ;-) Is it sill alive? Can it help you to feel better sometimes?...

[Endlessnight]

Dear LaLa ((((((hugs)))))). You are a wonderful person, I hope you know that. Your comments always make me think and many times amaze me at how clearly you see me - clearer than I do at times.

Dear IrmaJean thank you..((((((hugs)))))), your kind and gentle words always calm me.

Thank you everyone on the forum. I know everyone on here is going through something painful and I hope that everyone of us may someday find the peace and happiness we deserve.

((((((((hugs)))))))) to all.

[LaLa]

Thank you, M. I hope you'll see yourself the way we do see you, soon...

(((HUGS)))

[Endlessnight]

I've been thinking a lot about my past and my mum. I think the dream I had of her holding me and telling me everything would be okay was my internal self saying she had come to terms with what happened and had forgiven her. I feel a sense of peace now when I think of my mum. I no longer feel the anger or the pain I once did regarding me and her. I think I have truly forgiven her. Not quite sure I have forgiven myself though. Now, thinking of her, the only pain I feel is the pain of missing her.

Edited October 12, 2011 by Endlessnight

[LaLa]

(((M.)))

I'm happy that you've been able of the art of forgiving... I know missing is painful, but I'm sure after you managed to forgive, you'll also managed to go through a healthy grieving... IJ, for instance, posted manytimes very insightful texts about grieving. Have you seen some?

Take care...

[Endlessnight]

..........

Edited November 10, 2011 by Endlessnight

[SweetSue]

Hi,

I have felt this way on and off for years. I dont know 'how' exactly to overcome the feeling, or the intense emotions that comes with it.

Time with me is usually the answer. Meditation can help. As can therapy - in the long run. Its hard. I dont know really what to say, as well Im struggling myself. But wanted to you to know that it can get better, eventually.

Try and keep yourself busy if you are able. Distraction helps me to keep putting one foot infront of the other.

Sorry you are hurting.

I hope that your day can bring you a little inner peace

Take care

[LaLa]

Hi, M., nice to see you here again!

Sue says "therapy can help", but... this is not relevant in your case . But let's try something maybe "a bit therapy-like" : Can you describe the feeling in more details? What in particular makes you feel like in jail? What are the common traits of "your body" and "jail"? How do you imagine feeling outside this jail? Is there anything else that could make you feel the same or similar way? ...

And how's your life 'in general' these days? How is work and relationships in your family? Anything new?

Hugs,

L.

[Endlessnight]

Hi Sue. Thank you for your kind reply. I'm sorry you have been going through this for such a long time and I hope you can find peace.

Edited November 10, 2011 by Endlessnight