Self

[IrmaJean]

Carl Jung. I'll bet that is an interesting book.

I hope your time at the Samaritans went well, mts.

[Victimorthecrime]

Jung is too heavy for me for summertime reading.  Ever read 'On the Road'?  That's more my speed. Just sharing my preference, that's all.  

[mts]

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[mts]

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[Resolute]

20 minutes ago, mts said:

I guess novels are a good way to relax the mind? But mine needs constant stimulation...

your mind, or something else?

19 minutes ago, mts said:

I was getting sam's to sit near me, but it's hard to ask someone to do that. That's what helps me, as I can't avoid eye contact so easily.

i bet samaritan chicks being near you would be stimulating indeed lol; one could even say, you won't be able to avoid being stimulated so easily .

i say these things because i know we both have filthy minds, but if you want me stop i will.

i'm glad things are going well at samaritans. take care.

[mts]

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[Resolute]

23 minutes ago, mts said:

I watched a ted talk (those damn ted talks lol) about acceptance and commitment therapy earlier. In the video, he says to put a "I had a thought that..." before describing a feeling, and even a "I notice..." before saying you had a thought. Interesting language games?

i notice that i had a thought that i feel that doing this makes one forget what the bloody hell he was noticing/thinking/feeling/etc. in the first place. not to mention that one would be 80 by the time he managed to finish a thought/sentence.

[IrmaJean]

I recall being uncomfortable early on in therapy because my therapist was sitting too far away. Shortly after, he changed something in the room so he was closer. I told him I preferred that he was closer now, that this made the interactions more comfortable for me. I always prefer a more personal exchange with others, which is probably also why I prefer everyone here calling me by my given name rather than my screen name. My therapist sitting too far away felt distancing, and distancing behaviors can be stressful or even triggering to me. There can be a lot to learn about ourselves from our interactions with others. 

I'm very interested in psychology of all kinds. Maybe he was talking about building self awareness? 

I hope you have a good day, mts.

 

[mts]

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[Resolute]

i'm not sure what that means. i'm vulnerable even without looking at anyone.

[IrmaJean]

@Resolute But have you ever allowed someone to see your vulnerability? 

@mts I think my need to sit closer to my therapist was about my personal style of interacting and relating and wasn't so much about eye contact. I think my difficulty with eye contact over the years has been more about a difficulty with the intensity of being seen. That has gotten better with practice and also I think because I feel more accepting now of myself.

I don't know if any of that is helpful to you, mts, but it was something that came to mind while reading your post.

(And, yes, please feel free to call me Beth throughout the forum. :))

[LaLa]

23 hours ago, mts said:

he says to put a "I had a thought that..." before describing a feeling, and even a "I notice..." before saying you had a thought. Interesting language games?

It reminds me a lot of mindfulness (and mindfulness meditation) as I'm now "watching" a course at Coursera  that explains buddhism "in the light of" modern psychology (you can google Coursera + "Buddhism and Modern Psychology" and also join to see the lectures, if you want to). The lectures I've seen yesterday made a strong impression on me ("but" I felt quite depressive and hopeless for some time after) - they explained mainly the modular model of the mind and the controversial "non-existence of self", which both fit totally my experiences and impressions. I've known for years that my mind operates in several "modes", they can easily be called "modules" in the sense of this theory, and I feel like there's no "self" which could influence them or decide which will dominate, which will be active, ... And that's what they say, too! But they give some hope: The practice of mindfulness meditation and then the ability to apply this mindfulness also "outside meditation" (= IRL) can help one keep a distance from the modules and influence one's behaviour / reactions by first observing the feelings and thoughts and then deciding about their influence. So, to me, it sounds good (although I understand why Resolute makes fun of it  ). But at the same time, it seems unattainable to me. What's more; I'm also confused: How can they say there's not self and that meditation teaches to see/feel that there's no self, but at the same time they say that mindfulness helps to take a distance and make decisions consciously, not just automatically based on the "module" of the mind which is active at the moment?? What's taking the distance and making the decision if not a self?? So, to me, meditation should be something which, on the contrary, helps to develop the sense of a self - the feeling that there is really a "me" I can rely on, at least to some extent, to make conscious decisions based on something "more than just momentary" (a mood, a feeling of the moment), based mainly on long-term "goals" and on rationality, not just immediate gratification wich bad consequences, as it is so frequent in my case in the last years...  In fact, they also explained addiction by this model of evolutionary psychology and modules of the mind and it sounded so very apposite to me, but also so... hopeless, although their message wanted to bring hope. (There was also an interview with a scientist who showed that practice of mindfulness helps smokers to quit smoking.)

[LaLa]

On July 17, 2016 at 3:31 AM, mts said:

Took me about an hour just to upload the photo.

This reminds me of my husband  . Not because he's got difficulties with something like this, but because it takes too much patience and "obstinacy" to devote so much time to a task. I would give up (this in particular case) after 2 minutes max.!!! (-It's a bad thing in most cases, I know  . I would wish to be more persistent, but... I'm just not at all  ...)

[Resolute]

@LaLa, re: modules, i seem to have just one module, so i guess i do have a self of sorts. a shitty one, yes, but nonetheless.

 

1 hour ago, LaLa said:

This reminds me of my husband  . Not because he's got difficulties with something like this, but because it takes too much patience and "obstinacy" to devote so much time to a task. I would give up (this in particular case) after 2 minutes max.!!! (-It's a bad thing in most cases, I know  . I would wish to be more persistent, but... I'm just not at all  ...)

i'm persistent when something really gets my attention and doesn't make me look stupid. certain things i'm just not good at, so i simply don't waste my time.

[Resolute]

2 hours ago, IrmaJean said:

@Resolute But have you ever allowed someone to see your vulnerability?

fortunately, not in a long time.

[mts]

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[IrmaJean]

I think that meditation is supposed to clear one's mind and bring a person to the present by building self awareness and mindfulness. There may be a deeper aspect of ourselves and our connection with life, the universe, and with being that the thinking mind can obscure. On a basic level, I believe it helps a person relax and hopefully feel less stress and anxiety. K meditated regularly so I know he could explain better, but that is my understanding of it. I meditate myself sometimes and I do find it helpful. I imagine, though, that like anything else it may be more helpful to some and less helpful to others.

I like what you wrote about our loving selves and about looking at many different theories as a means to help ourselves through knowledge. I feel the same. I hope you will keep expressing yourself, mts, and that you feel more comfortable in time doing so.

Yes, regarding my reasons for looking away during eye contact. It was the feeling it would bring up that would cause me to avert my eyes. And thank you for using my name.

Be well and take care, mts.

[mts]

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